Criminal Girls Censorship

They're criminals. They're girls. They're criminal girls!
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Ringwraith
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Ringwraith » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:04 am

Totooria wrote:
Ringwraith wrote:
Totooria wrote:However, just look at the thread and everywhere else on the internet, you are losing FAR more sales then gaining by censoring. Including mine. Looks at the sales of Mugen Souls and Senran Kagura. Senran Kagura is one of the top sellers in the Nintendo eShop, you know why? Because XSEED doesn't censor other then ages.

Except people who post on the internet are a vocal minority, and you cannot gain a picture of what of the silent majority thinks by looking at such things.
If the previous cases are anything to go by, where people strongly objected to it, yet a sequel was localised and games in similar cases were also, so the sales couldn't have been that bad.
Also rankings on different stores don't mean a whole lot, especially when said games are entirely different genres.

Its bad. At least less they intended. There are still copies of the Mugen Soul Limited Edition in the store unsold. And its been over a year after release. And let me say, its a very fine limited edition. Comes with artbook, soundtrack, figures, its quite the package. The reason its still there is because they removed content from the game. Which is why, as much as I want it, it just gives me an ill taste when I think that Im missing out on stuff because they don't like the content. Respect creative freedom.

Except there were also Atelier Totori LE's on the store for a long time after release, as well as a lot of Disgaea 4 LEs, even the figure edition. So it doesn't actually say much.
Correlation does not imply causation.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:04 am

lopez wrote:NISA has been censoring their products for years and they're still in business, so this model must be working for them. It may very well be that anti-censorship is more of an isolated case among consumers, a vocal minority if you will. Not saying that's wrong in any way, but if it really was such a major issue, then NISA would've changed their practices by now.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is only really the third time it's been something really big (two MS games and now this), so saying "for years" is a bit misleading - not to mention the audience is much larger now, so more and more people will take issue as the practice continues.

Criminaljesus wrote:The people on the internet are the only people interested in this game

Thanks for saying this man. It really needed to be said.

Spoiler:
I've been having a bad day and that laugh helped.


But seriously, there are tens, maybe hundreds of internet commenters (more like ten on this site) - these games sell in the thousands. That's just a false statement.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Criminaljesus » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:14 am

Seventh wrote:But seriously, there are tens, maybe hundreds of internet commenters (more like ten on this site) - these games sell in the thousands. That's just a false statement.


The people on the internet are the core fanbase that makes up the majority of the sales, if they don't buy it the majority of the sales goes with it along with the positive reviews that are needed in the event that someone besides the core fanbase hears about the game and considers buying it. These games when put in perspective with the entire western gaming market are niche, but the main consumers of the game that want the game left uncensored are not niche.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Ringwraith » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:17 am

Criminaljesus wrote:
Seventh wrote:But seriously, there are tens, maybe hundreds of internet commenters (more like ten on this site) - these games sell in the thousands. That's just a false statement.


The people on the internet are the core fanbase that makes up the majority of the sales, if they don't buy it the majority of the sales goes with it along with the positive reviews that are needed in the event that someone besides the core fanbase hears about the game and considers buying it. These games when put in perspective with the entire western gaming market are niche, but the main consumers of the game that want the game left uncensored are not niche.

Internet comments are never the full picture, and always a minority. Whether that agrees with the silent majority or not is not discernible from posts alone.
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<SaturnineTenshi> and we can play with solice because he likes it
<Solice> i hear it's better than playing with myself

<Solice> celtic had a hard time getting his ball out?
<Kana> oh man, you have no idea

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby kudo » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:22 am

Even if internet commentors are the minority, it doesn't change the fact that they're confirmed customers.
You can appeal as much as you like to those Madden fans but I can't see them buying this in the first place. Of course some people who like Madden will buy it but, you get my point. They're not the target audience for this game censored or not.
The game has certain appeal even if it weren't censored and some of the silent majority would buy it, we could enjoy the game uncensored and buy it, recommend it to others and make them join the silent majority.

By pushing censorship you're just ostracizing the minority, part of the silent majority that don't condone censorship - just to appeal for the people that would buy it anyway as they don't know that it's either censored or they don't care.
Last edited by kudo on Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Ultimate_Nova_X » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:24 am

Great, more of this NISA censorship fiasco.

If the so-called ESRB lets you wet yourself this much, why even bother?

(I apologize if my post sounds a bit crass).
Last edited by Ultimate_Nova_X on Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Ringwraith » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:27 am

Appealing to everyone means you appeal to no-one.

I agree with not antagonising people for no reason, but similarly, sometimes you're going to annoy someone for some reason or another.
Sometimes you have to accept there are different people out there, and you can't make everyone happy.

Addendum: although it gets beaten on a lot, the whole 'we'd have to change it this way or it's too risky for us financially to localise it at all' argument still stands.
Last edited by Ringwraith on Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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<SaturnineTenshi> and we can play with solice because he likes it
<Solice> i hear it's better than playing with myself

<Solice> celtic had a hard time getting his ball out?
<Kana> oh man, you have no idea

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:29 am

kudo wrote: they don't know that it's either censored or they don't care

This one point is something that I don't think gets brought up enough in localization discussions here. NISA's stance seems to be that since they're still having successes, therefore the changes they've made are all okay.

But that doesn't account for people who didn't know there was an alternative. It doesn't account for those who don't care that there was a change - nor those who didn't like the change, but in not knowing it was a change, took it as the original product. And saying the game sold so it was a success is kind of flawed in itself considering people can't really see some of the issues they might be bringing up until they've played. And why should the successes of games that never had changes of these levels be used as evidence to support changing and censoring games? That's been a much more reason thing of theirs.

Ringwraith wrote:Appealing to everyone means you appeal to no-one.

I agree with not antagonising people for no reason, but similarly, sometimes you're going to annoy someone for some reason or another.
Sometimes you have to accept there are different people out there, and you can't make everyone happy.

You have been saying so much stuff I agree with today. I think I'll just let you take over. :lol:
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby lopez » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:31 am

Ringwraith wrote:Appealing to everyone means you appeal to no-one.

I agree with not antagonising people for no reason, but similarly, sometimes you're going to annoy someone for some reason or another.
Sometimes you have to accept there are different people out there, and you can't make everyone happy.


This. At the end of the day it's about the bottomline. NISA is still in-business and has started expanded to anime, so unless something changes they'll continue to follow the same policies, for better or worse.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Totooria » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:36 am

lopez wrote:
Ringwraith wrote:Appealing to everyone means you appeal to no-one.

I agree with not antagonising people for no reason, but similarly, sometimes you're going to annoy someone for some reason or another.
Sometimes you have to accept there are different people out there, and you can't make everyone happy.


This. At the end of the day it's about the bottomline. NISA is still in-business and has started expanded to anime, so unless something changes they'll continue to follow the same policies, for better or worse.

Just because they are surviving doesn't mean they can't do better.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:39 am

I think that's fair.

And considering NISA's gameplan is trying to widen their audience, even if not to everyone, well, yeah.
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Ultimate_Nova_X » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:40 am

Seventh wrote:
kudo wrote: they don't know that it's either censored or they don't care

This one point is something that I don't think gets brought up enough in localization discussions here. NISA's stance seems to be that since they're still having successes, therefore the changes they've made are all okay.

But that doesn't account for people who didn't know there was an alternative. It doesn't account for those who don't care that there was a change - nor those who didn't like the change, but in not knowing it was a change, took it as the original product. And saying the game sold so it was a success is kind of flawed in itself considering people can't really see some of the issues they might be bringing up until they've played. And why should the successes of games that never had changes of these levels be used as evidence to support changing and censoring games? That's been a much more reason thing of theirs.


...AND it doesn't account for the people that don't like the changes but don't think it's worth missing out a whole game over. (I think Seventh is one of these people).

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Criminaljesus » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:40 am

Totooria wrote:
lopez wrote:
Ringwraith wrote:Appealing to everyone means you appeal to no-one.

I agree with not antagonising people for no reason, but similarly, sometimes you're going to annoy someone for some reason or another.
Sometimes you have to accept there are different people out there, and you can't make everyone happy.


This. At the end of the day it's about the bottomline. NISA is still in-business and has started expanded to anime, so unless something changes they'll continue to follow the same policies, for better or worse.

Just because they are surviving doesn't mean they can't do better.


If they continue to censor games to appeal to a non existent audience, they're just going to expand the group of people who refuse to buy NISA games and turn off the remaining fans and potential customers of this company.

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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby Seventh » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:41 am

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:
Seventh wrote:
kudo wrote: they don't know that it's either censored or they don't care

This one point is something that I don't think gets brought up enough in localization discussions here. NISA's stance seems to be that since they're still having successes, therefore the changes they've made are all okay.

But that doesn't account for people who didn't know there was an alternative. It doesn't account for those who don't care that there was a change - nor those who didn't like the change, but in not knowing it was a change, took it as the original product. And saying the game sold so it was a success is kind of flawed in itself considering people can't really see some of the issues they might be bringing up until they've played. And why should the successes of games that never had changes of these levels be used as evidence to support changing and censoring games? That's been a much more reason thing of theirs.


...AND it doesn't account for the people that don't like the changes but don't think it's worth missing out a whole game over. (I think Seventh is one of these people).

Oh crap, I forgot myself! Thank you. :lol:
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Re: Criminal Girls Censorship

Postby kudo » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:43 am

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:
Seventh wrote:
kudo wrote: they don't know that it's either censored or they don't care

This one point is something that I don't think gets brought up enough in localization discussions here. NISA's stance seems to be that since they're still having successes, therefore the changes they've made are all okay.

But that doesn't account for people who didn't know there was an alternative. It doesn't account for those who don't care that there was a change - nor those who didn't like the change, but in not knowing it was a change, took it as the original product. And saying the game sold so it was a success is kind of flawed in itself considering people can't really see some of the issues they might be bringing up until they've played. And why should the successes of games that never had changes of these levels be used as evidence to support changing and censoring games? That's been a much more reason thing of theirs.


...AND it doesn't account for the people that don't like the changes but don't think it's worth missing out a whole game over. (I think Seventh is one of these people).


I know I won't be missing out on it, I'll import the original game and play with guide if it comes to that.
Also easy Japanese in the game helps so might not even need a guide.
Even if I can do that the whole act of pushing for censorship is pretty disgusting, but like some has said I guess it's working for them?
I don't know, but I have no plans pay for censored products, my opinion as single person doesn't count much though.


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