Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

User avatar
Prinny Supervisor
Demon Lord
Demon Lord
Posts: 592
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Prinny Supervisor » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:58 pm

Wdog-999 wrote:Also, quick question: would it be possible for you to release a censored/rated and uncensored/unrated version of the game on Steam at once, or are there rules against that on either the Steam level or the NISA level?


I don't think it would be technically impossible, as long as both listings do not share the exact same name, but it would be quite impractical. It would basically double the amount of work (at every level, right down to marketing) that would have to be done. I also imagine that the folks at Steam might have a problem with it, due to it being potentially misleading to customers.
Mo' Money, Mo' Moe
Image

User avatar
Rednal
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 16942
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:09 am
Location: Cuddling with Coco

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Rednal » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:28 pm

If anyone cares, I've been asking the ESRB about getting a game rated once, and then releasing an unrated version of it later. Hopefully I will actually get an answer, since I'm curious. :lol:
PSN: LordRednal / Twitter: @Rednal29 ] Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/rednal29
Image

User avatar
Lord Gorchnik
Loyal Vassal
Loyal Vassal
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:45 pm

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Lord Gorchnik » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:33 pm

Censored Gaming wrote:https://www.change.org/p/nis-america-release-criminal-girls-2-party-favors-uncensored-on-steam


Your intentions are well and good for sure, especially by one by myself. However, a post to a petition on a niche gaming board for this is going to attract no one. You would need to blast this to all sorts of different gaming websites and outlets and have them report on it. And since NISA isn't going to sponsor it nobody is going to care.

Maybe I need to stop being a glass half-empty kind of individual.

User avatar
Battlechili
Vassal
Vassal
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:06 pm

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Battlechili » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:35 pm

Prinny Supervisor wrote:CG is already in the books, as it were (we announced that it was coming to Steam a while back and we've been constantly working it out)
Would it not be possible for CG to be made uncensored in an update post-release should NISA decide to make exceptions to its policy regarding unrated game releases?
RandomR wrote:EDIT: threads like this one are the best you're gonna find so far

https://steamcommunity.com/app/405900/d ... 868007638/
Oh hey, that username looks familiar. :P
Censored Gaming wrote:https://www.change.org/p/nis-america-release-criminal-girls-2-party-favors-uncensored-on-steam
And signed.
I dunno how much good it'll do but its worth a shot.
Image

User avatar
knightnightmare
Majin
Majin
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:51 am
Location: In Neptune's arms.
Contact:

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby knightnightmare » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:38 pm

Games do not even have to be rated by the ESRB to be on Steam in the first place, so this all seems kinda silly to me tbh. Though it is an interesting question for the ESRB since Monpiece was only rated for the Vita when it was released.
The closer your go towards the light, the darker you shadow becomes.

User avatar
Rednal
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 16942
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:09 am
Location: Cuddling with Coco

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Rednal » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:12 pm

I got bored and decided to review some of the comments on the petition. o wo/

Spoiler:
Why would I want half a game? Not worth full price to me if it's missing content.


I feel like "half" is an exaggeration. It's more like 98%. Also, do you have an opinion on region-specific DLC?

As a gamer people regardless of the language. They should have the chance to get the closest experience to the original game as the developer intended it to be played without censorship and poor translation.


I generally agree, aside from the grammar issues here. Unfortunately, what "should" be and what actually is aren't always the same thing.

Do you really need to gauge interest for releasing uncensored games? [Bleep] you, NISA.

The ESRB is not nearly as strict as you seem to believe, stop self-censoring your games before you submit them for review.

Stop with the company policy bull[bleep] and release your PC ports uncensored.


I'm sure they know people would prefer them uncensored. What they don't know is if the work to release an unrated game on Steam is an appropriate match for the cost of doing so. Also, I'm pretty sure that the company who talks with them about content on a regular basis knows more about how strict they are than the average gamer. Also, I don't think "self-censoring" is the right phrase to use when a company talks with the rating boards and gets feedback prior to release.

If an uncensored edition can be released on a platform. Every attempt should be made to do so.


I mostly agree. I wouldn't ask a company to do so if it wouldn't be profitable. It is never fair to ask a company to take a loss.

I'm an adult, I am capable of decid8ng what content I consume, and I do not need someone deciding what is appropriate content for me.


Well, ratings are mostly for parents getting stuff for their kids anyway. You should talk to the hardware developers, though, because they're the ones outright rejecting certain content.

It's the whole point of the game. No one's buying it for the gameplay or the story.


This is false. o wo/ I'm buying it for the gameplay and the story. The minigame (which I suppose is also technically gameplay...?) is an amusing side component to me, not the main reason to get the game.

Censoring a game won't get you more sales, this one is for sure.

On the other hand, showing that you listen to your community and release the game without butchering it, well, I could see people getting behind that and supporting you by buying the game. I know I would.


When the alternative is no sales at all, then yes, censoring does get you more sales. I wish people would recognize that they do listen to their community, and release things with as few edits as they could manage. However, the anti-censorship community seems to have no interest in compromises of any sort, and that's awkward.

No matter how "little" censorship is ever done to any game, I do not support devs/pubs that do any kind of censorship.
Niche game sales not what you expected? Probably because I'm not the only one that doesn't buy your censored "localizations".


Oh, sales weren't what they expected, all right. They were higher. o wo/ The idea that censorship equals tons of people not buying the game doesn't really hold water.

This game is great! So I hope we can get an uncensored version on Steam


I agree.

I feel like it's important to provide an unmodified experience for players who want the original content. Most of the concerns could be addressed in ways that still allow players access in some form to the original content. For example, providing the original content in the form of free DLC.

Also, I make a point of supporting developers that at least make the unmodified content available in some fashion. I know I'm only one person, but it's something I like to see.


That additional content has to be rated, too. If it COULD be done that way, it would be.

I'd love to play this game uncensored on steam


And I hope you can. o wo/

I want to experience games as the creators intended.


This is reasonable. Do note that the creators decided on the changes, and could have said "no" if they felt it compromised their vision too much.

I believe there's a far bigger market for this kind of game when it's uncensored.


Consumer beliefs don't really affect company decisions, though - hence the petition. You're currently at a little over 550 people, which is probably not enough to sway the company. However strong your feelings are, it's important to provide concrete evidence to back them up if you want others to listen.

I'd buy this game in a heartbeat if it was properly translated AND uncensored. I have no interest in a title such as this butchered of its appeal.


You don't know how much ecchi stuff is still in the game, do you?

this is the digital age. you dont need to please console companies anymore. censorship is obsolete.


I think companies publishing on consoles would disagree.

I'm a [bleep] adult and I should have the option to play the original content


Well, there's always importing. Whether or not you like it, it IS an option.

I'd like to play the full game please.


I appreciate the politeness. Most people aren't showing it.

To be honest, i'm not interested in the game itself, but i don't like games content being changed, when there realy isn't a reason to.


In this case, there was a reason.

I’m tired of censorship for the sake of appealing to a larger demographic on something so niche as this. It’s alienating your core audience for the larger demographic that’s not even interested in such a niche.


This would be a useful sentiment if it bore any similarity to what's actually happening. NISA isn't trying to appeal to a bigger demographic - not when the "edits" keep a ton of ecchi stuff intact. They're just trying to release it in the first place.

If you are going to have a censored version, make it so that it's optional. Either by having both versions available or having a option ingame in censoring such content. As an Adult I am more then capable of making such decisions for myself.


If they could have released an unmodified version, they would have.

I'd prefer to buy and play a game as the creators intended it, rather than something that's been mutilated and changed for the sake of not offending the perpetually offended.


Again, basically no relation to reality here. NISA isn't trying to avoid offending people - did you play Ultra Despair Girls? Because that was offensive.


Anyway, the basic summary of the contents: "We think censorship is bad." Which is to be expected from the several hundred people signing an anti-censorship petition, of course.
PSN: LordRednal / Twitter: @Rednal29 ] Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/rednal29
Image

User avatar
razisgosu
Netherworld Baron
Netherworld Baron
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:13 pm

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby razisgosu » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:42 pm

600 in about 24 hours isn't bad. It's certainly not a large majority of what NISA is expecting for sales I'm sure, but I'd guess this is starting to show at least a couple percent of sales estimates vs signatures.

User avatar
Sleepyprinny99
Netherworld Nobility
Netherworld Nobility
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:25 am

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:30 pm

Rednal wrote:I got bored and decided to review some of the comments on the petition. o wo/

Spoiler:
Why would I want half a game? Not worth full price to me if it's missing content.


I feel like "half" is an exaggeration. It's more like 98%. Also, do you have an opinion on region-specific DLC?

As a gamer people regardless of the language. They should have the chance to get the closest experience to the original game as the developer intended it to be played without censorship and poor translation.


I generally agree, aside from the grammar issues here. Unfortunately, what "should" be and what actually is aren't always the same thing.

Do you really need to gauge interest for releasing uncensored games? [Bleep] you, NISA.

The ESRB is not nearly as strict as you seem to believe, stop self-censoring your games before you submit them for review.

Stop with the company policy bull[bleep] and release your PC ports uncensored.


I'm sure they know people would prefer them uncensored. What they don't know is if the work to release an unrated game on Steam is an appropriate match for the cost of doing so. Also, I'm pretty sure that the company who talks with them about content on a regular basis knows more about how strict they are than the average gamer. Also, I don't think "self-censoring" is the right phrase to use when a company talks with the rating boards and gets feedback prior to release.

If an uncensored edition can be released on a platform. Every attempt should be made to do so.


I mostly agree. I wouldn't ask a company to do so if it wouldn't be profitable. It is never fair to ask a company to take a loss.

I'm an adult, I am capable of decid8ng what content I consume, and I do not need someone deciding what is appropriate content for me.


Well, ratings are mostly for parents getting stuff for their kids anyway. You should talk to the hardware developers, though, because they're the ones outright rejecting certain content.

It's the whole point of the game. No one's buying it for the gameplay or the story.


This is false. o wo/ I'm buying it for the gameplay and the story. The minigame (which I suppose is also technically gameplay...?) is an amusing side component to me, not the main reason to get the game.

Censoring a game won't get you more sales, this one is for sure.

On the other hand, showing that you listen to your community and release the game without butchering it, well, I could see people getting behind that and supporting you by buying the game. I know I would.


When the alternative is no sales at all, then yes, censoring does get you more sales. I wish people would recognize that they do listen to their community, and release things with as few edits as they could manage. However, the anti-censorship community seems to have no interest in compromises of any sort, and that's awkward.

No matter how "little" censorship is ever done to any game, I do not support devs/pubs that do any kind of censorship.
Niche game sales not what you expected? Probably because I'm not the only one that doesn't buy your censored "localizations".


Oh, sales weren't what they expected, all right. They were higher. o wo/ The idea that censorship equals tons of people not buying the game doesn't really hold water.

This game is great! So I hope we can get an uncensored version on Steam


I agree.

I feel like it's important to provide an unmodified experience for players who want the original content. Most of the concerns could be addressed in ways that still allow players access in some form to the original content. For example, providing the original content in the form of free DLC.

Also, I make a point of supporting developers that at least make the unmodified content available in some fashion. I know I'm only one person, but it's something I like to see.


That additional content has to be rated, too. If it COULD be done that way, it would be.

I'd love to play this game uncensored on steam


And I hope you can. o wo/

I want to experience games as the creators intended.


This is reasonable. Do note that the creators decided on the changes, and could have said "no" if they felt it compromised their vision too much.

I believe there's a far bigger market for this kind of game when it's uncensored.


Consumer beliefs don't really affect company decisions, though - hence the petition. You're currently at a little over 550 people, which is probably not enough to sway the company. However strong your feelings are, it's important to provide concrete evidence to back them up if you want others to listen.

I'd buy this game in a heartbeat if it was properly translated AND uncensored. I have no interest in a title such as this butchered of its appeal.


You don't know how much ecchi stuff is still in the game, do you?

this is the digital age. you dont need to please console companies anymore. censorship is obsolete.


I think companies publishing on consoles would disagree.

I'm a [bleep] adult and I should have the option to play the original content


Well, there's always importing. Whether or not you like it, it IS an option.

I'd like to play the full game please.


I appreciate the politeness. Most people aren't showing it.

To be honest, i'm not interested in the game itself, but i don't like games content being changed, when there realy isn't a reason to.


In this case, there was a reason.

I’m tired of censorship for the sake of appealing to a larger demographic on something so niche as this. It’s alienating your core audience for the larger demographic that’s not even interested in such a niche.


This would be a useful sentiment if it bore any similarity to what's actually happening. NISA isn't trying to appeal to a bigger demographic - not when the "edits" keep a ton of ecchi stuff intact. They're just trying to release it in the first place.

If you are going to have a censored version, make it so that it's optional. Either by having both versions available or having a option ingame in censoring such content. As an Adult I am more then capable of making such decisions for myself.


If they could have released an unmodified version, they would have.

I'd prefer to buy and play a game as the creators intended it, rather than something that's been mutilated and changed for the sake of not offending the perpetually offended.


Again, basically no relation to reality here. NISA isn't trying to avoid offending people - did you play Ultra Despair Girls? Because that was offensive.


Anyway, the basic summary of the contents: "We think censorship is bad." Which is to be expected from the several hundred people signing an anti-censorship petition, of course.



I got a huge laugh out of that tbh...kinda surprised me, not the quote content so much as just showing up as a post I guess...?
Anyways, I ended up nodding to most of your responses....except that weird awkward silence in the mini game/motivation will still never be okay...just too creepy im(snall complaint I know, but it REALLY bugs me). Anyways, thanks for sharing.

(Also, it may be just me...but nothing about Ultra Despair Girls offended me so much as got me thinking, well there's being a fan too I suppose...but maybe I'm jusg broken?)

User avatar
Rednal
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 16942
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:09 am
Location: Cuddling with Coco

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Rednal » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:42 pm

If UDG was going to be censored, I feel like a certain pink-haired girl's backstory would have been toned down. The fact that it wasn't is one of the main reasons I doubt people who act like NISA is trying to appease SJW's and other over-the-top groups instead of, y'know, selling to their actual audience. XD
PSN: LordRednal / Twitter: @Rednal29 ] Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/rednal29
Image

User avatar
knightnightmare
Majin
Majin
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:51 am
Location: In Neptune's arms.
Contact:

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby knightnightmare » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:24 pm

Rednal wrote:If UDG was going to be censored, I feel like a certain pink-haired girl's backstory would have been toned down. The fact that it wasn't is one of the main reasons I doubt people who act like NISA is trying to appease SJW's and other over-the-top groups instead of, y'know, selling to their actual audience. XD


I agree and disagree with that at the same time lol. You have things like Ar Tonelico 3 that were not censored at all, then bath game from Mugen was removed and the text toned down. Then we get to Criminal Girls were pink smoke was left over crotches, and CG2 there are plenty of uncensored crotch shots. So honestly none of this makes sense to me.

Review embargo is up so I can discuss things in a little more detail about CG2 now, and honestly it makes me wonder why the first one was even censored at all.
The closer your go towards the light, the darker you shadow becomes.

User avatar
Rednal
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 16942
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:09 am
Location: Cuddling with Coco

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Rednal » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:29 pm

It makes perfect sense to me.

Ar Tonelico 3 was never that bad to begin with, so no changes were necessary.

Mugen Souls' minigame was apparently a bit much at the time - probably with the skin-colored clothing bit - and they ultimately elected to take it out.

Criminal Girls 1 just kept in a bit of the fog that was already there (fog was present in the Japanese version, too!), and CG2 limited it to occasionally adding underwear and removing ropes.

To me, this is a clear progression of more censorship to less censorship, which suggests that the rating boards are getting more tolerant over time. ^^ And that, of course, is a good thing. The ESRB's ratings aren't totally static - they do adjust to the times.
PSN: LordRednal / Twitter: @Rednal29 ] Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/rednal29
Image

User avatar
knightnightmare
Majin
Majin
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:51 am
Location: In Neptune's arms.
Contact:

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby knightnightmare » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:35 pm

Rednal wrote:It makes perfect sense to me.

Ar Tonelico 3 was never that bad to begin with, so no changes were necessary.

Mugen Souls' minigame was apparently a bit much at the time - probably with the skin-colored clothing bit - and they ultimately elected to take it out.

Criminal Girls 1 just kept in a bit of the fog that was already there (fog was present in the Japanese version, too!), and CG2 limited it to occasionally adding underwear and removing ropes.

To me, this is a clear progression of more censorship to less censorship, which suggests that the rating boards are getting more tolerant over time. ^^ And that, of course, is a good thing. The ESRB's ratings aren't totally static - they do adjust to the times.


Right, but Mugen Souls was a witch hunt and done on moral grounds, the ESRB had NOTHING to do with that.

that was a bit of Fog to you? I think we have a different definition of a bit and yes it did, but not nearly what we had. It looked like the girls farting pink MS paint clouds.

and not that much has change between when CG 1 released and now. I don't buy that for second.
The closer your go towards the light, the darker you shadow becomes.

User avatar
Rednal
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 16942
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:09 am
Location: Cuddling with Coco

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Rednal » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:37 pm

Hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. :lol: To me, it looks like a distinct trend of less censorship over time.
PSN: LordRednal / Twitter: @Rednal29 ] Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/rednal29
Image

User avatar
knightnightmare
Majin
Majin
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:51 am
Location: In Neptune's arms.
Contact:

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby knightnightmare » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:00 pm

Rednal wrote:Hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. :lol: To me, it looks like a distinct trend of less censorship over time.


A trend of none would be better, but at least more effort was put into CG2 than CG1. Though I feel if NISA is gonna do ecchi games like this, they are gonna have to learn to deal with what comes with that and not be like we don't want our company seen this way.

That being said I think that most of the games they bring over are great games and localization are usually very well done. I think people tend to forget without NISA there would be no Neptunia, Atelier, At tonelico, and lots of other series that they may not handle now, but were a big part in getting them established here.

That doesn't mean I won't be critical of things, but it always comes from a place of love rather than anger.
The closer your go towards the light, the darker you shadow becomes.

User avatar
Sleepyprinny99
Netherworld Nobility
Netherworld Nobility
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:25 am

Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:33 pm

They did a HORRIBLE job on Ar Tonelico 2(everything from game crashing bugs to to REALLY bad translating decisions) though, and they keep on screwing up the Hymmnos bits series wide for some unfathomable reason...which upset me to no end since I love the series, especially hymmnos as a constructed language...1 and 3 were handled passably, 2 was garbage but all treated the game's in game language with zero respect since it was crucial to the backdrop and context....but being a a lover of language in general I have a harsher scale when it comes to linguistic issues like that. I will never not be pissed at that joke of a localization(AR 2, I mean).

Anyway, I'm all for zero censorship too but progress is seldom a "something to suddenly nothing" kinda thing. It's an unfair sliding scale...a really arbitrary one at that where the only concrete motivators are numbers if a particular kind, be it sales or raw data...but even that's faulty given market selfishness. Right or wrong is meaningless with this kind of fickleness, so is expecting anything other than gradual change ideally in a positive direction.

That said...like Rednal pointed out it does seem to be the case that the overall trend is positive.
If nothing else, NISA is trying.


Return to “Criminal Girls 2: Party Favors”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests