Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

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Wdog-999
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Wdog-999 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:52 pm

Scumbadsoldier wrote:
Ringwraith wrote:
Scumbadsoldier wrote:Elaborate on this, because...
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Looks about the same, dude. Can you provide us with an example that demonstrates this more clearly?

You'd be amazed how much the inferences can be changed from simply having some bindings present.
Which is what's happening most visibly in that case.

Also for arguments saying they could release an unedited PC version, sure, but then they'd have to find a storefront to sell it from digitally; Steam won't take it...

What are you basing this on? There's, as far as I know, no literally pornographic in the game, and even if it'd get an AO rating, there's nothing barring those from Steam. There is very heated and public precedence on this.

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Hatred was rated AO based solely on violence. I imagine the process would go rather differently for a game that got the AO rating for sexual reasons.
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Prinny Supervisor » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:53 pm

Domo7 wrote:I really want to preorder this one, since the changes don't seem as harsh as the first one, but I just have two quick questions.

1. How much pink fog is going to cover up all this new redrawn art, is it going to be the same as the japanese release or so thick you can't even see the pictures like the first Criminal Girls?


No pink fog in this one, dood! What you see is what you get. No pink fog, no censor bars, none of that. Just the redrawn art, animated with the Live2D system.

2. Have the camera angles changed during the motivation parts, like the first one where everything was zoomed in way too close?


In Criminal Girls, the "zooming" is determined by chance and the level of the Motivation; that didn't change at all in localization, it behaved just like the Japanese release. For Criminal Girls 2, there is no "zooming", because in this one, at the right level, the entire image takes up the Vita screen, oriented in portrait:
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Scumbadsoldier » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:57 pm

Wdog-999 wrote:
Scumbadsoldier wrote:
Ringwraith wrote:
Scumbadsoldier wrote:Elaborate on this, because...
Spoiler:
Image

Looks about the same, dude. Can you provide us with an example that demonstrates this more clearly?

You'd be amazed how much the inferences can be changed from simply having some bindings present.
Which is what's happening most visibly in that case.

Also for arguments saying they could release an unedited PC version, sure, but then they'd have to find a storefront to sell it from digitally; Steam won't take it...

What are you basing this on? There's, as far as I know, no literally pornographic in the game, and even if it'd get an AO rating, there's nothing barring those from Steam. There is very heated and public precedence on this.

Image


Hatred was rated AO based solely on violence. I imagine the process would go rather differently for a game that got the AO rating for sexual reasons.

Maybe. It's hard to say, given the lack of a precedent. Although, even the "censored" versions of the Sakura ___ games, as well as other VNs have some really suggestive content.

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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Domo7 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:57 pm

Thank you so much for your answers. I preordered the Party Bag Edition, can't wait til September.

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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby DSveno » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:19 pm

If only there is NISAsia, so we won't have to deal with the westerners' prejudge of such games. I'm amazed at what XSEED and Compile Heart can do that NISA can't though.

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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby knightnightmare » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:22 pm

Prinny Supervisor wrote:
Aardbark wrote: Games like "blank" have been released that have actual nudity and actual sex, on screen, and get an M rating. But the idea that this game would get AO, with no actual nudity or sex, only implied themes, is disheartening. If thats true, then the ESRB is corrupt and has no integrity.


Context is crucially important to ratings boards. It's not really just about nudity or sex, it's more about the way in which those things are presented in the game.

Anyway, all that aside I will still probably get this game. The worst that Ive read about the changes, is the redrawn art. The given example isnt bad, but it has the potential to be terrible. Who knows how large the changes can be, they could be huge and drastic.

Could someone official state how many images have been changed, and by how much? Are we looking at 5 images or 50?


The art is still being worked on as we speak, so I cannot give a good estimate as to the number of scenes that were changed, but I can say that it's probably around half the total scenes. Some of the changes are extremely minor, some of the changes involve poses and how much clothing covers what. I would say that the example given in the blog post is probably in the "middle" of the degree of changes. We have to be especially careful with the two younger-looking characters, Kuroe and Mizuki, because sexual situations which may be interpreted as being non-consensual involving minors is one of the biggest no-nos that you could ever no to ratings boards.


So does that mean the scenes with those two have been drastically altered?
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Prinny Supervisor » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:34 pm

knightnightmare wrote:So does that mean the scenes with those two have been drastically altered?


Not necessarily. In the Japanese release, the game (and promotional materials) explicity state that Kuroe and Mizuki are children. For obvious reasons those lines of dialogue have been changed in the localization. That allows us much more leeway in how those characters are depicted.
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby jb08045 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:40 pm

I'm going to be really blunt.

why can SK have nipple outlines, lolis and thongs getting stripped against their will also with excessive language and even camel toe and violence and death and still get an M raiting yet this can't? Even the dressing room dialog is kept intact and translated by subs.

I understand covering lolis but the girl in the op is obviously an "adult" and there isn't even genitalia. Just bounded ropes which is one of selling points of the game. >_>
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Super86 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:55 pm

Prinny Supervisor wrote:
Super86 wrote:How long should i expect to wait before i can pre order this via the EU store. And will the PAL regions get the party bag edition?


Right now, we are really, really trying to work out a deal with our distributors to bring both LEs to our EU store. I'll be sure to post any updates about that situation!


Thank you i'm super keen for the party bag edition.

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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Wdog-999 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:00 pm

jb08045 wrote:I'm going to be really blunt.

why can SK have nipple outlines, lolis and thongs getting stripped against their will also with excessive language and even camel toe and violence and death and still get an M raiting yet this can't? Even the dressing room dialog is kept intact and translated by subs.

I understand covering lolis but the girl in the op is obviously an "adult" and there isn't even genitalia. Just bounded ropes which is one of selling points of the game. >_>


As far as I can tell from playing the Sony games (albeit without reading any of the story), all of the clothing damage in Senran Kagura is tongue-in-cheek whereas the stuff in Criminal Girls has an S&M bent to it. Add in the fact that the person doing the punishment here is more-or-less a blank slate meant to fill in for the player who doesn't experience the punishment himself whereas the fighters in SK are fully-established characters who are fighting for the sake of not suffering the clothing damage and the situations are very different.
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby razisgosu » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:02 pm

jb08045 wrote:I'm going to be really blunt.

why can SK have nipple outlines, lolis and thongs getting stripped against their will also with excessive language and even camel toe and violence and death and still get an M raiting yet this can't? Even the dressing room dialog is kept intact and translated by subs.

I understand covering lolis but the girl in the op is obviously an "adult" and there isn't even genitalia. Just bounded ropes which is one of selling points of the game. >_>


This is one of the biggest things I find it difficult to wrap my head around. Especially since the example image was very clearly of a busty adult. It makes it very difficult to say "yeah this makes sense" when I can look over at other games in my collection and say but it was fine there. I realize it was in the FAQ not to do this, but as a consumer I have to look at it based on what I can see, I don't have the backroom dealings to help me comprehend why these changes are necessary.

The most puzzling piece to the entire FAQ for me is deliberately sending Criminal Girls PC out to the censorship police slaughter house. I absolutely can't comprehend why the game needs to be the censored western version when multiple options exist to make everyone happy and avoid all outcry of censorship on the title. Patches, unrated versions, see if Steam would launch it with an AO if it would inevitably get that rating are all there to solve that problem. If Kindred Spirits on the Roof and various other visual novels can launch on Steam uncensored, I really find it hard to believe Criminal Girls can't do the same. Given the reasons in the FAQ is absolutely seems like an internal decision that is simply the wrong one and not in the best interest of fans.

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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Rednal » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:05 pm

Per my interview with the ESRB done around the time the first Criminal Girls came out, context totally makes a difference in how something is rated. (They also consider factors like whether or not actions are rewarded and how much control a player has.)

I don't think many people have a problem with older, bustier characters in certain situations. It's the other characters, and if all the other characters are tied up while the loli's randomly aren't, there's still a degree of implication...

(Food for thought: The picture NISA showed was probably NOT one of the ones considered objectionable. That could potentially be regarded as advertising, and the ESRB has problems - to the tune of million-dollar fines - with companies that violate its rating system with their advertising material. So it's better to think of the images NISA showed as "an example of how the changes are being done", rather than "this was the objectionable content".)
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Prinny Supervisor » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:10 pm

jb08045 wrote:why can SK have nipple outlines, lolis and thongs getting stripped against their will also with excessive language and even camel toe and violence and death and still get an M raiting yet this can't?


That is an excellent question for the ESRB, but if I had to guess, I would say that consent, incentives and participation of the player, explicitly sexual focus, and the themes of the game put it in a different light.

Now matter how you spin it, having girls with comically-huge breasts lose clothes (to reveal underwear) in the heat of ridiculously-over-the-top battles is interpreted differently than a situation in which a visibly underage, near-naked girl with wrists bound is spanked all over her body by the player character while she cries and begs you to stop.

Again, I can't be sure, I don't work for the ESRB. But I can almost guarantee you that is at least a factor in their thinking.

Context matters.
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby Prinny Supervisor » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:09 pm

And as an additional note, something that I see going around a lot that I wish I could respond to directly, but will instead have to address here:

The "censoring" of this game is in no way an attempt to "pander" or "market" to certain people. It is in no way a response to any anticipatory backlash by "feminists" or "SJWs". Understand that these edits were done to bring the game down to an M (and equivalent) from an AO, not from an M to an M (but with less sexual content) or T. We know what game we're making, y'all. It's from our parent company.

If this game required no edits whatsoever from the ESRB and was released with an M rating, I would love it. I would rejoice. All of the "SJWs" in the world could send me death threats over email, form a picket line outside the office, egg my house, set my car on fire, and write essays and give television interviews about how Criminal Girls 2 is the most abhorrent game ever made and no civilized person should ever play it and shame on everyone involved in its creation...and I would prefer it to having to deal with all of this "censorship" drama.

Don't ever, ever believe that we want to censor things.
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Re: Criminal Girls 2 is heading your way!

Postby souledge94 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:21 pm

Why did you guys skip out on dubbing again? Thats the main reason I skipped out on the first one.
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