Horned demon discrimination.

Official forums for any game taking place in the universe on any platform. Awesome, dood!
User avatar
Rhuen
Netherworld Nobility
Netherworld Nobility
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:05 pm
Location: Twilight Reality

Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Rhuen » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:02 pm

Its a funny thing I realized, we have never had in a Disgaea game a humanoid type demon with horns (as in no horned demons have ever been able to equip normal weapons) even story characters with horns have all been classified as "monster types"

Disgaea: Maderas, Zaninski/Hoggmeiser, both monster types, and Maderas got a second smack when vampire types showed up later in the game making him lose any individuality really.

Disgaea 2: Taro,

Disgaea 3: Raspbyrl

each and everytime any demon even with a humanoid body has appeared, if they had horns they were monster types and only able to use the "monster weapons" which are just stats boosts with no special additions (weapon moves).
Good? Evil? I am what I am; a force of nature.
Overlord? Diety? I wasn't aware I was in charge, I am just the creator.
Image

User avatar
melody angel
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 5311
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:30 pm
Location: canada don't make fun of me :(

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby melody angel » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:46 am

yes your right how stange :o
QUEEN MELODY ANGEL

Image

can you please feed my pet lilly :D

Image

User avatar
Ubiquitor
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 6354
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: Everywhere

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Ubiquitor » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:00 pm

Maderas and Hoggmeiser were tertiary characters.

Both Hanako and Taro were too young/small to wield real weapons.

Rasberyl had the secondary monster weapon type (books) dedicated to her.
Obsolete Mafia-archive
Spoiler:
Image

Image
"And now, the rich and beautiful Master Asagi has chosen your stupid game to be her next victim!"
-Asagi, Soul Nomad

User avatar
Rhuen
Netherworld Nobility
Netherworld Nobility
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:05 pm
Location: Twilight Reality

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Rhuen » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:01 pm

Ubiquitor wrote:Maderas and Hoggmeiser were tertiary characters.

Both Hanako and Taro were too young/small to wield real weapons.

Rasberyl had the secondary monster weapon type (books) dedicated to her.


those are just excuses.

Story character is a story character, its an observation that the horned humanoids have yet to be able to weild weapons *other than the one they come with like Hogmeiser and Rasberyl*.

Also note none of the other humanoids *extra characters* have horns who can weild weapons.

Archers, Gunners, Knights, Witchs, Skulls, ect...not a single one has horns who can also weild the interchangible weapons.
Good? Evil? I am what I am; a force of nature.
Overlord? Diety? I wasn't aware I was in charge, I am just the creator.
Image

User avatar
LordLaharlsVassal
Netherworld Baron
Netherworld Baron
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:58 am

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby LordLaharlsVassal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:05 am

Did Zaninski/Hoggmeiser have horns? They looked like ears to me...

Being of monster class does not seem to mean much in terms of story, they apparently made Gordon and Jennifer monster class in Disgaea 3 as DLC.

NIS does not seem to like using tails, horns or wings for the generic humanoid characters, they just got pointy ears, I always wondered why, they are suppose to be demons, but they look more like elves.
Image
Disgaea Light Novels and Artbooks Localization supporter!
Learn more: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... gaeaNovels

My deviantart: http://maharl.deviantart.com/

User avatar
vampko
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 42005
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:31 am
Location: 暮し幸せ

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby vampko » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:35 am

Ubiquitor wrote:Maderas and Hoggmeiser were tertiary characters.

Both Hanako and Taro were too young/small to wield real weapons.

Rasberyl had the secondary monster weapon type (books) dedicated to her.

Please don't remind me of Raspbery. I HATED that she was monster class. It made zero sense, her and Mao were the same species, but she got treated as a monster. Even her classmates were considered humanoid. She got gipped big time on that game.....:(
あの巨人シノはあんたたちの金髪少女の髪を食べたいな顔をしてるよ
Image
AniList (no need to reg to view)
[06:46:27] <Solice> you're like dealing with a bag of rabid cats
Zdood: You are who you are. And you are a captain at the wheel of an easily-sinkable fleet of ships made of duct tape.
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Ubiquitor
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 6354
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: Everywhere

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Ubiquitor » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:29 pm

Humanoid types (those who wield weapons) tend to be of a general build/height (possibly such that animations associated with weapon-usage and lifting will be relatively standardized). This does not deny the fact that any generic humanoid class could have easily been given horns (though long horns could be problematic with lifting). I believe that Maderas, Hoggmeiser and Taro do not fit this build; however based on character sprite, Rasberyl probably fits this general build; furthermore Overlord Priere is another instance that may support your theory.
Obsolete Mafia-archive
Spoiler:
Image

Image
"And now, the rich and beautiful Master Asagi has chosen your stupid game to be her next victim!"
-Asagi, Soul Nomad

User avatar
Arson
Netherworld Nobility
Netherworld Nobility
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Arson » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:22 pm

Ubiquitor wrote:furthermore Overlord Priere is another instance that may support your theory.


Yeah, but she's a bonus boss/DLC. I don't know about D2(Haven't played past the... first map?), or D3(Haven't gone very far/bought any DLC), but every unlockable uber-character is usually a monster type. This also explains why Marjoly, the most malevolent witch in the galaxy, cannot wield a staff.

User avatar
Ubiquitor
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 6354
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:13 pm
Location: Everywhere

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Ubiquitor » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:15 pm

Arson wrote:
Ubiquitor wrote:furthermore Overlord Priere is another instance that may support your theory.

Yeah, but she's a bonus boss/DLC. I don't know about D2(Haven't played past the... first map?), or D3(Haven't gone very far/bought any DLC), but in Disgaea 1 every unlockable uber-character is usually a monster type. This also explains why Marjoly, the most malevolent witch in the galaxy, cannot wield a staff.


Pardon my modification; however your assessment seems accurate. In Disgaea 1, there was a greater desire to have cameo characters "wield" their own unique "weapon" (graphically) than making them more weapon-diverse. Incidentally, in Disgaea 2 and 3, there are many humanoid type post-game characters (Axel, Asagi, Marona, Fubuki, Big-Star, Salvatore).
Obsolete Mafia-archive
Spoiler:
Image

Image
"And now, the rich and beautiful Master Asagi has chosen your stupid game to be her next victim!"
-Asagi, Soul Nomad

User avatar
Arson
Netherworld Nobility
Netherworld Nobility
Posts: 473
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Arson » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:22 pm

Ubiquitor wrote:
Arson wrote:
Ubiquitor wrote:furthermore Overlord Priere is another instance that may support your theory.

Yeah, but she's a bonus boss/DLC. I don't know about D2(Haven't played past the... first map?), or D3(Haven't gone very far/bought any DLC), but in Disgaea 1 every unlockable uber-character is usually a monster type. This also explains why Marjoly, the most malevolent witch in the galaxy, cannot wield a staff.


Pardon my modification; however your assessment seems accurate. In Disgaea 1, there was a greater desire to have cameo characters "wield" their own unique "weapon" (graphically) than making them more weapon-diverse. Incidentally, in Disgaea 2 and 3, there are many humanoid type post-game characters (Axel, Asagi, Marona, Fubuki, Big-Star, Salvatore).


Ah.

Well, I see this thing more as coincidence. Either that, or instead of "Hey, this character has horns, lets make him a monster type", it's probably "Hey, this character is a monster type, it should probably have horns."

User avatar
Rhuen
Netherworld Nobility
Netherworld Nobility
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:05 pm
Location: Twilight Reality

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Rhuen » Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:34 pm

the problem with the animation sprite issue is the fact that the Disgaea series doesn't differ much in sprite types than say Phantom Brave , in which everything from people to dogs could wield just about anything from swords to trees as weapons. Even slimes could weild swords in that game.

So its not a sprite issue, its intentional.
Good? Evil? I am what I am; a force of nature.
Overlord? Diety? I wasn't aware I was in charge, I am just the creator.
Image

User avatar
NekoCake
Geo Master
Geo Master
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:04 am

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby NekoCake » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:52 am

LordLaharlsVassal wrote:NIS does not seem to like using tails, horns or wings for the generic humanoid characters, they just got pointy ears, I always wondered why, they are suppose to be demons, but they look more like elves.


Yes, it bothers me a little. The very first time I played Disgaea I thought they were all human. Then one day I noticed they ears were pointy...
It's rare to see a humanoid class in the Disgaea world that truly resembles a demon, they look more like elves indeed. They should have brought the designs of their obscure cellphone game (http://news.dengeki.com/elem/000/000/08 ... index.html // http://games.nippon1.co.jp/makaigakuen/ ) to the main games (now it's too late for that though XD ) .

By the way, I think the concept sketch of the warrior class had big demon/bat wings (I saw that in the artbook), perhaps that was cut out in the final art because that would make the sprites very complicated.

User avatar
Taiga
Netherworld Baron
Netherworld Baron
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:04 pm
Location: Paprica underworld

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Taiga » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:07 am

I think most of the concept art had character with wings. But yeah, I think wings would have been too hard to animate for most. I mean, look at Prier, her full body art shows her having wings... which are nowhere to be found on her sprite, and Etna and Flonne had really tiny wings on theirs. Maybe it was harder to do back in D1, and while they can do it now... gotta keep up with the old style in a way.
Image

User avatar
Rhuen
Netherworld Nobility
Netherworld Nobility
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:05 pm
Location: Twilight Reality

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby Rhuen » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:16 am

Well the point ears thing isn't unheard of being used for a demon, look as Sehshomaru from Inuyasha, you'd think he was just a human with odd clothing till you noticed the ears.

Although given they use the term "Mazoku" in Japan for Disgaea they are left with a very open end for designs, so these guys really could be "dark elves" or "vampires" in some way. Heck Laharl sleeps in a coffin.

okay gave myself a vision of the movie Twilight and Disgaea together and made me shudder :?

We have everything from Puppets to fire elementals, reapers, vampires, succubi, cat-girls, ect... all under one lable. and looking at Japanese anime, guess the general idea for a humanoid demon is like 90-99% human with some small give away like ears, tiny horns, eyes (imagine that would would have been hard to do in sprite form), or a tail.
Good? Evil? I am what I am; a force of nature.
Overlord? Diety? I wasn't aware I was in charge, I am just the creator.
Image

User avatar
LordLaharlsVassal
Netherworld Baron
Netherworld Baron
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:58 am

Re: Horned demon discrimination.

Postby LordLaharlsVassal » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:50 am

I problem is not that the characters are humanoid, but I think it's kinda dumb to not use such small yet effective features as tails, horns, wings, marks, skines etc., though I do understand that they don't want to make the design too complicated for the sprites sake, but what they have done in the past often is; if that was the case they would just don't draw it on the sprites, like Rozalin and Vyers, they both got wings, but they did not draw with wings as sprites, but that does not change the fact that they both got wings, and I don't mind them doing that, so I wish they would do that more often for the sake of more diverse design, don't get me wrong, NIS characters desing are great and I love them, but as demon design they can fell a bit short(and I think this is true with japan and demon designs in general), because the word demon has to mean something! Humens with pointy ears don't really cut it for me, unless there are something else to them.
Image
Disgaea Light Novels and Artbooks Localization supporter!
Learn more: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... gaeaNovels

My deviantart: http://maharl.deviantart.com/


Return to “Disgaea Series”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests