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Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:18 pm
by dood
Me personally thought it was ok for the second game but now it feels wrong for some reason.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:25 pm
by Seventh
Personally, I'm getting to be very tired of them. They feel less like their "real" selves from the first game and more like "obligatory fanservice/cameos" with every new installment. The fact that a lot of characters who KEEP their development in their subsequent appearances (Adell and Rozalin, to name two big ones) seem to constantly either not appear or get demoted to DLC, even when they were also main characters, just rubs salt in the wound.

The overexposure has gotten old, and quite frankly, it's high time some other characters got some spotlight like that. There's more to Disgaea than "Laharl, Etna, Flonne, and Prinnies" (or "Etna and Prinnies" or "Laharl, Etna, and Prinnies", depending), but with how these cameos and whatnot go, you'd never know it.

I admit, after checking out Beryl mode, it seems like Flonne's gotten off okay, though I can't speak for Disgaea 4 (and for the sake of spoilers, I think none of us should at the moment), but even so, I can't imagine it'll be... too bad. Of the original trio, I'd argue she's gotten the "best" treatment, while Etna's EASILY gotten the "worst".

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:36 pm
by Shizuka
Honestly, I think we don't need Disgaea 5, what we really need is Disgaea 1-2. I feel that Disgaea 1 was the game with the least character development of all three (for now), and that I didn't really get the opportunity of bonding with the main character. Three main characters had to share the spotlight with several other characters, and in the end, I feel like I've seen more of Captain Gordon that I wished.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:40 pm
by Seventh
... Seriously?

Laharl actually developed a lot - the problem is that no game after Disgaea 1 seems to have paid attention to that development. Etna developed less so - it was more her loyalty to Laharl that developed than her actual character, but with her diaries and whatnot, she got her share as well. Flonne did grow up somewhat as well, though admittedly, a large part of her development was being the catalyst for Laharl and learning the concept that demons have hearts too.

I think if you compare Flonne from the start of 1 to Beryl mode (arguably, the only "canon" appearance since 1, cameos aside), and maybe include Infinite, then yeah, she HAS grown up some too. Infinite could be your 1-2, actually, come to think of it.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:47 pm
by Shizuka
The problem is how NIS manages the character development. I don't want to buy every single Disgaea game and DLC to know how a character is going to develop. That just makes the list increase at each new game, and I feel like it's getting more stuffed.

That's how they're going to make their money, probably, by steadily develop the characters on the upcoming games and DLC. I mean, it's nice to build a good amount of characters, but I've seen Laharl too much and actually I don't know a lot about him, not as much as I'd want to.

I played Disgaea 1 and I felt like it was okay. After I played Disgaea 2 and 3, I noticed that they improved the way they develop things, but as I said, it's getting stuffed and kinda annoying. I don't know if I can stare at more of Laharl, Flonne and Etna as empty shells just to make more money or just for the sake of it.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:48 pm
by vampko
Infinite was actually the most developed I'd seen the trio since D1 really.

I like Etna, and they're cameos. I don't really care that much about their reasons/story whatever. I just want Etna in my party is all

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:54 pm
by Seventh
... Honestly, though, I think they've only developed in Infinite since 1. Etna was sort of development and sort of cameoing in 2's story mode, and given that the alternate story modes (thus far, not counting (ironically) Etna's) are all still connected to the main story mode, we can count Beryl Mode as an extension of 3's story.

So aside from 2, 3:B, and Infinite, we can consider cameos as just that: cameos. Nothing more, nothing less, and we shouldn't expect them to be anything other than their barebones selves without their character development.

Not only that, in 3:B, we can argue Flonne was showing the RESULT of her character development in 1/Infinite/the time that has passed from 1/Infinite to 3 (... as well as, y'know, teasing for 4) as opposed to really developing at all, so even if you miss that, you're not actually missing any of the development process - she appears, but it IS mostly a cameo, and it was more for Beryl's development than anyone else's, definitely not her own.

@vamp: ... So use any other spear wielder? Better that than another game forcing Etna's lazily used character on us again.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:58 pm
by Shizuka
Seventh wrote:So aside from 2, 3:B, and Infinite, we can consider cameos as just that: cameos. Nothing more, nothing less, and we shouldn't expect them to be anything other than their barebones selves without their character development.

That's why I believe Disgaea has become a cameofest. Everyone's in it, but at the same time, I've pretty much lost interest on everybody as well. They're there, empty shells, without development, just there. I'd love to see a game without new cast, only old cast, but everybody interacting with everybody.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:03 pm
by Seventh
Shizuka wrote:
Seventh wrote:So aside from 2, 3:B, and Infinite, we can consider cameos as just that: cameos. Nothing more, nothing less, and we shouldn't expect them to be anything other than their barebones selves without their character development.

That's why I believe Disgaea has become a cameofest. Everyone's in it, but at the same time, I've pretty much lost interest on everybody as well. They're there, empty shells, without development, just there. I'd love to see a game without new cast, only old cast, but everybody interacting with everybody.

... To be fair, though, that doesn't so much apply to other characters.

Adell and Rozalin's relationship has been developing in DLC (unless 4 botches what 3 started) and has never been "undone" like anything in 1 has been, 3's cast actually interacts and has quite a bit of fun with 2's in DHD and 3, and 3's post-game, DLC, and apperances in Infinite and other games gives them quite a lot of depth.

Really, I think it's only 1's trio that has this problem - partly in part because they get used SO much. Even Axel's sort of kept his development (not so much his ending though), and he really IS everywhere. Unless you really want to count Hanako, Taro, and Tink as characters that desperately needed hardcore development.

(On that note though, aside from Majin Hanako appearing, Hanako going to be with Etna seems to have been ditched entirely.)

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:06 pm
by Shizuka
Let me rephrase it: I'd like a game with all main cast interacting with every other main character. Raspberyl talking to Rozalin, Adell exchanging tips with Laharl and Flonne annoying Mao.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:09 pm
by Seventh
Shizuka wrote:Let me rephrase it: I'd like a game with all main cast interacting with every other main character. Raspberyl talking to Rozalin, Adell exchanging tips with Laharl and Flonne annoying Mao.

So basically an Infinite 2? Because I'd be all over that.

Because, honestly, I can't see how putting any of these characters can do anything but hinder their development when they've all already gotten it in regards to a proper game. That would, if anything, give N1 another chance to put them back to their barebones selves to REdevelop them, and that would just be insulting to the original games they came from.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:09 pm
by vampko
Seventh wrote:
Shizuka wrote:
Seventh wrote:So aside from 2, 3:B, and Infinite, we can consider cameos as just that: cameos. Nothing more, nothing less, and we shouldn't expect them to be anything other than their barebones selves without their character development.

That's why I believe Disgaea has become a cameofest. Everyone's in it, but at the same time, I've pretty much lost interest on everybody as well. They're there, empty shells, without development, just there. I'd love to see a game without new cast, only old cast, but everybody interacting with everybody.

... To be fair, though, that doesn't so much apply to other characters.

Adell and Rozalin's relationship has been developing in DLC (unless 4 botches what 3 started) and has never been "undone" like anything in 1 has been, 3's cast actually interacts and has quite a bit of fun with 2's in DHD and 3, and 3's post-game, DLC, and apperances in Infinite and other games gives them quite a lot of depth.

Really, I think it's only 1's trio that has this problem - partly in part because they get used SO much. Even Axel's sort of kept his development (not so much his ending though), and he really IS everywhere. Unless you really want to count Hanako, Taro, and Tink as characters that desperately needed hardcore development.

(On that note though, aside from Majin Hanako appearing, Hanako going to be with Etna seems to have been ditched entirely.)

Yeah I hope they go back to that someday. that was actually a great chance for some more character development and interesting character interactions.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:11 pm
by Shizuka
Seventh wrote:
Shizuka wrote:Let me rephrase it: I'd like a game with all main cast interacting with every other main character. Raspberyl talking to Rozalin, Adell exchanging tips with Laharl and Flonne annoying Mao.

So basically an Infinite 2? Because I'd be all over that.

That, but with gameplay.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:14 pm
by Seventh
vampko wrote:
Seventh wrote:(On that note though, aside from Majin Hanako appearing, Hanako going to be with Etna seems to have been ditched entirely.)

Yeah I hope they go back to that someday. that was actually a great chance for some more character development and interesting character interactions.

Glad I'm not the only one...

I'm still hoping for my two-story moded Taro and Hanako game in the future though. A man can dream.

Shizuka wrote:
Seventh wrote:So basically an Infinite 2? Because I'd be all over that.

That, but with gameplay.

Could be interesting. Maybe if it's not made out to be a huge Disgaea game, or just as a PSP/Vita-only one, there could be real potential for it.

Re: Does anyone ever get tired of Laharl, Flonne, and Etna?

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:15 pm
by Shizuka
Seventh wrote:
Shizuka wrote:
Seventh wrote:So basically an Infinite 2? Because I'd be all over that.

That, but with gameplay.

Could be interesting. Maybe if it's not made out to be a huge Disgaea game, or just as a PSP/Vita-only one, there could be real potential for it.

I want an all-out interectable Disgaea game or a new one that ditches every single past character, like Final Fantasy. Not the best example, but there you go.