Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby robeduriv » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:15 am

Thanks for your support vampko. Just wanted to let anyone that is interested know that I have finished posting my topic in the feedback section concerning the content of AT3. I'll appreciate very much your approval on my suggestion which I think most of us really want who are into this sort of Japanese media.
The goal I have in mind is to gather about 100,000 members to post their approval by the end of August. Of course I can't carry this out alone so I'll need your help to spread the word out and let them know to register in the NISA forum in order to post in that certain topic.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby Solice » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:58 pm

robeduriv wrote:Thanks for your support vampko. Just wanted to let anyone that is interested know that I have finished posting my topic in the feedback section concerning the content of AT3. I'll appreciate very much your approval on my suggestion which I think most of us really want who are into this sort of Japanese media.
The goal I have in mind is to gather about 100,000 members to post their approval by the end of August. Of course I can't carry this out alone so I'll need your help to spread the word out and let them know to register in the NISA forum in order to post in that certain topic.

How the monkey are you going to get 100,000 members to do that? The current number of NISA members are only 1022 as of this posting. Also, I recommend a poll on that thread. It would be easier to determine number of accounts (note I didn't say people) participating if there's a tally, rather than assuming that everyone will only post once.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby noexcusepunk » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Solice wrote:
robeduriv wrote:Thanks for your support vampko. Just wanted to let anyone that is interested know that I have finished posting my topic in the feedback section concerning the content of AT3. I'll appreciate very much your approval on my suggestion which I think most of us really want who are into this sort of Japanese media.
The goal I have in mind is to gather about 100,000 members to post their approval by the end of August. Of course I can't carry this out alone so I'll need your help to spread the word out and let them know to register in the NISA forum in order to post in that certain topic.

How the monkey are you going to get 100,000 members to do that? The current number of NISA members are only 1022 as of this posting. Also, I recommend a poll on that thread. It would be easier to determine number of accounts (note I didn't say people) participating if there's a tally, rather than assuming that everyone will only post once.


I wouldn't expect anything to make sense, Solice. After all they're arguing about something that doesn't make any real business sense.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby magusgs » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:40 pm

I would say that there's little point to arguing with someone who thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth.

In any case, NISA has stated their position. Assuming you trust them at their word, this entire debate is moot.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby vampko » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:04 pm

noexcusepunk wrote:
Solice wrote:
robeduriv wrote:Thanks for your support vampko. Just wanted to let anyone that is interested know that I have finished posting my topic in the feedback section concerning the content of AT3. I'll appreciate very much your approval on my suggestion which I think most of us really want who are into this sort of Japanese media.
The goal I have in mind is to gather about 100,000 members to post their approval by the end of August. Of course I can't carry this out alone so I'll need your help to spread the word out and let them know to register in the NISA forum in order to post in that certain topic.

How the monkey are you going to get 100,000 members to do that? The current number of NISA members are only 1022 as of this posting. Also, I recommend a poll on that thread. It would be easier to determine number of accounts (note I didn't say people) participating if there's a tally, rather than assuming that everyone will only post once.


I wouldn't expect anything to make sense, Solice. After all they're arguing about something that doesn't make any real business sense.

We just don't want them to cut content. I know that putting an M rating on it might or might not hinder sales. I can say that M ratings never stopped me from getting games when I was younger. My parents trusted me, and left it up to me pretty much on which game I played. I recognize that not everyone has that kind of freedom when they're younger. NISA HAS stated that they're keeping the full Japanese track, so that should mean that there aren't any cuts. But, for me, this is more about future titles. When NISA makes cuts to their games to maintain an ESRB rating (which, in my opinion, the ESRB is a bunch of bollocks), they drift further and further into being like certain other publishers which are now tearing games into pieces because of similar reasons. I love NISA, and I've always appreciated that they've put the fans first. As long as they stick to minor changes like the one in Rorona, then I won't really care. But, if they start actually editing scenes out and whatnot, then that will be cause for concern.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby robeduriv » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:24 am

I'm getting the feeling that both of you, noexcusepunk and magusgs, are not reading my posts entirely. It might be because of my member status, who knows, but I'll display my gamertag to prove I am an active NISA consumer and appreciate ever little detail their games have to offer. Maybe this will give me the "right" I deserve in this forum for my opinions to be heard.

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robeduriv wrote:Exactly my point magusgs, why should NISA attempt to focus more on the current "casual" U.S. gamer than the smaller but sufficient number of NISA fans who are really the ones maintaining business. I am aware of how highly sensitive the U.S. audience is towards sexual themes compared to violence and that is why I think some bothersome protests might arise if AT3 remains with the T tag. I bet if a statistic is carried out involving 10 random U.S. parents from a grocery store and they view the "purging" system of the JP AT3, 9 out of 10 of them will misinterpret what's really going on and obviously find it offensive. Those of us who have been following the AT storyline understand that there is more to that feature than simply the characters losing part of their wardrobes. I'm American as well and got into this sort of Japanese media about a decade ago when I was 12 and fully understood the boundary between fantasy and reality by then. Of course, most likely only a few U.S. teenagers develop this mature mindedness early just as a few teenagers develop a mature physical body early and appear as if they are 20 when they really are only 15.

Back on topic, all I'm saying is that I don't think the M tag will have a negative effect on AT3 sales and am confident most present AT fans will not mind so long as that prevents the U.S. version of AT3 to turn out incomplete as what happened to AT2 which there's no denying that fact. I'm about to open a thread in the NISA feedback section concerning the AT3 rating for those of us that don't mind the M tag on AT3 to post their approval. I can gather up about 20,000 members who will post their approval but that won't be high enough and we'll have to spread the word out. I recommend gathering AT fans from other forums, youtube or twitter videos if you already have a channel and are not camera shy, or any other possible way you can think of and tell them to register to the NISA forum and post their approval on that certain thread. This will also help NISA to get an estimate on how many consumers will purchase AT3 on release day and arrange preorder bonuses more effectively.


Concerning the thread I have made in the feedback section, I have already stated some methods on gathering members in the previous quoted post. I'll post it again for anyone else that might have missed it such as Solice, "I recommend gathering AT fans from other forums, youtube or twitter videos if you already have a channel and are not camera shy, or any other possible way you can think of and tell them to register to the NISA forum and post their approval on that certain thread. This will also help NISA to get an estimate on how many consumers will purchase AT3 on release day and arrange preorder bonuses more effectively."
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby bloodyaftertaste » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:32 am

I really don't think they are on the other side because of your post count or that they don't think you are a fan of NISA and their games. I think it's that they generally disagree with what you are saying. While NISA does look for our feedback it is up to them to decide what is best for them in their business decisions. Also saying that you want a petition with 100,000 signatures I believe was the number, we came up with something like only 40,000 copies were sold in the US for either 1 or 2. I can't remember which they were looking up.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby Solice » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:55 am

bloodyaftertaste wrote:I really don't think they are on the other side because of your post count or that they don't think you are a fan of NISA and their games. I think it's that they generally disagree with what you are saying. While NISA does look for our feedback it is up to them to decide what is best for them in their business decisions. Also saying that you want a petition with 100,000 signatures I believe was the number, we came up with something like only 40,000 copies were sold in the US for either 1 or 2. I can't remember which they were looking up.

Essentially, he asserts that he will obtain more than double the number of total copies of Ar tonelico 2 sold in North America. My doubts here are two fold: 1) that he'll get 100,000 people (note I didn't say accounts) participating and actually care and 2) that these "signatures" will mean anything. This is one of those types of make or break business decisions, and can't be taken lightly. If there's some way that he can translate 100,000 empty signatures into sales, then he's got something. It's been a little while since I last checked, but last I knew, the number of online petitions that gathered over 5,000 signatures was in the billions, certainly more than one per person on Earth. The number of those that effected a change was a number less than 1.

Also, please understand that your original assertion and implication of 100,000 unique, caring, buying participants reminded me of a scene in Austin Powers where Dr. Evil says "One... billion... dollars..." Absolutely ridiculous sounding considering the community present.

Instead of calling me out by name, and merely asserting that I am wrong in my thoughts somehow (please note that I have only stated skepticism and not opposed efforts discussed), I think your efforts might be better spent in curing my skepticism with results in both of those areas of concern that I mentioned instead of attempting to defend a position with assertions that you're being discriminated against or that we're not playing ball. We want to see your resolve, not hear about it.

Additionally, robeduriv, you would do well to not rally-post against those who have shown no opposition to your cause. Its a very efficient way to make sure that those who might agree with you will actually vote against your cause, or at least not vote for it.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby noexcusepunk » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:01 am

vampko wrote:We just don't want them to cut content. I know that putting an M rating on it might or might not hinder sales. I can say that M ratings never stopped me from getting games when I was younger. My parents trusted me, and left it up to me pretty much on which game I played. I recognize that not everyone has that kind of freedom when they're younger. NISA HAS stated that they're keeping the full Japanese track, so that should mean that there aren't any cuts. But, for me, this is more about future titles. When NISA makes cuts to their games to maintain an ESRB rating (which, in my opinion, the ESRB is a bunch of bollocks), they drift further and further into being like certain other publishers which are now tearing games into pieces because of similar reasons. I love NISA, and I've always appreciated that they've put the fans first. As long as they stick to minor changes like the one in Rorona, then I won't really care. But, if they start actually editing scenes out and whatnot, then that will be cause for concern.


Oh no, I get it. Ya'll have been repeating yourself over and over again, though I regret to tell you that I got it the first time.
Apparently me having a differing opinion can't be comprehended.
Actually READ my posts, and I'm sure you'll come to realize that while I agree nothing should be taken out, and while nothing should be taken out as the purge sequences aren't all that bad, and since the ESRB has in the past given a T rating to similar situations in games such as this, then we shouldn't have to worry about an M rating. But even if they did take something out, it won't bother me too much.
I mean, have you even READ my posts? It's one of the only ones with FACTUAL INFORMATION in it with provided links, so I suppose it's only natural to want to skip it due to the internet's aversion to real life numbers.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby vampko » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:00 am

noexcusepunk wrote:
vampko wrote:We just don't want them to cut content. I know that putting an M rating on it might or might not hinder sales. I can say that M ratings never stopped me from getting games when I was younger. My parents trusted me, and left it up to me pretty much on which game I played. I recognize that not everyone has that kind of freedom when they're younger. NISA HAS stated that they're keeping the full Japanese track, so that should mean that there aren't any cuts. But, for me, this is more about future titles. When NISA makes cuts to their games to maintain an ESRB rating (which, in my opinion, the ESRB is a bunch of bollocks), they drift further and further into being like certain other publishers which are now tearing games into pieces because of similar reasons. I love NISA, and I've always appreciated that they've put the fans first. As long as they stick to minor changes like the one in Rorona, then I won't really care. But, if they start actually editing scenes out and whatnot, then that will be cause for concern.


Oh no, I get it. Ya'll have been repeating yourself over and over again, though I regret to tell you that I got it the first time.
Apparently me having a differing opinion can't be comprehended.
Actually READ my posts, and I'm sure you'll come to realize that while I agree nothing should be taken out, and while nothing should be taken out as the purge sequences aren't all that bad, and since the ESRB has in the past given a T rating to similar situations in games such as this, then we shouldn't have to worry about an M rating. But even if they did take something out, it won't bother me too much.
I mean, have you even READ my posts? It's one of the only ones with FACTUAL INFORMATION in it with provided links, so I suppose it's only natural to want to skip it due to the internet's aversion to real life numbers.

I only responded because you stated that none of us had any business sense and basically attacked us as a person. I have not attacked you as a person, and never discredited your statements. I have just tried to explain multiple times that we are not stupid just because we want the company to favor us over profits. We all want the company to succeed, but we don't want the company to ditch us like Squarenix did so long ago just to garner more profits. Why do I need to output facts and statistics to enforce an opinion that is based on selfish desire?

Anyways, as many of the posters have stated, in the case of Ar Tonelico III, we have nothing to worry about. NISA has confirmed that we will get everything in this game, uncut.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby robeduriv » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:33 pm

@bloodyaftertaste

To be honest, I was not aware that AT 2 sales ended up being that low so I'll admit that gathering 100,000 petitions is a bit far-fetched. Even so, that should not stop us from gathering as many current and potential fans who agree that removing any content will have a negative impact and if the M tag prevents this, so be it.

@Solice

In your previous post you make it seem as if I stated that I will gather 100,000 on my own which I clearly did not state. I registered in the NISA forums about two weeks ago when I read the great news on IGN that AT3 is heading to the U.S. Then, I came across this thread where a concerned Ar Tonelico fan like myself and others were wondering if AT3 would make it here due to many reasons already mentioned. Now we know that AT3 is getting localized but the question now is "Will Ar Tonelico 3 get properly localized?" In order to do this NISA needs to know what the majority of us really want out of the final copy and so that's why I'm carrying out this petition in order to gather a larger community. It's up to you whether you want to defend "freedom of expression" in media or to continue dancing to what society expects of you.

@noexcusepunk

You keep contradicting what you post. First you say that you don't want any content to be taken out but then you say if something is taken out, you won't be bothered much. Why would you want to purchase a product that has been degraded and reduced from its original value in order to maintain a letter T tag? If that ends up happening, most likely those who were planning on purchasing AT3 like myself will change their minds and wait for another fan translation in order to get the complete experience as quite a couple thousand people have done with AT2. As I told Solice, in the end it's your choice if you want to spread the idea of having quality future NISA products or just sit back and purchase incomplete products limited by society's standards.

@vampko

That's how I feel about Square Enix and Capcom too as well as of late. They now only care about satisfying the current "casual" gamer rather than the fans who have been supporting them from the start. I understand if they create original games from scratch to please the "casuals" but all they are doing is dramatically changing existing franchises such as Final Fantasy, Street Fighter and Resident Evil. I certainly hope that NISA manages to keep the US AT3 complete in content with any means necessary and that it gets the recognition it deserves.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby noexcusepunk » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:35 pm

Wow. No need to get irritated.
If I seem to be contradicting myself robe, then you really HAVEN'T read what I posted.
OR, maybe I haven't been overly clear.
No one was attacking either you (vampko) or anyone else. If you felt that way, such is the way of debate, and I apologize that that is how it came across.
No one called you stupid, and no one said you had no business sense. I specifically remember saying that "it made no business sense." It was not directed at a single person or entity, rather the action we were debating.
Everything in our posts was in response to those posted by several users brought to our attention after this thread had been dead for a couple of months.
So, in essence, we were responding to the posts that we obviously read, otherwise we wouldn't have responded in the first place.
Your membership status has nothing to do with who listens to your opinions. Nor does your age.

We just don't agree.

This board is one of those kinds of boards that you can pretty much say what you want, and not be damned. But you also have to respect the opinions of others.
That's kind of why I started posting here.
While I disagree with you on some points, I still respect your opinion.
Ironically, I even AGREE with you that I would like to see nothing cut.
I just want this company to stay in business.
I thought I made that clear...

When you present an argument in a debate, evidence or sources help to give support to your point.
When it came to examples of why this game shouldn't even have to be considered an M rated game, I supplied that evidence.
Which was promptly ignored.
Which is fine. However, more argument was made that this M rating might happen, with no support to show past issues that there was anything to worry about.
THAT, is what I responded to.
Again... I thought I was being clear...
Perhaps not.
In any case, I'm not trying to aggravate you, that wasn't my intention. My intention is to argue my case to the best of my ability.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby Solice » Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:55 pm

robeduriv wrote:@Solice

In your previous post you make it seem as if I stated that I will gather 100,000 on my own which I clearly did not state. I registered in the NISA forums about two weeks ago when I read the great news on IGN that AT3 is heading to the U.S. Then, I came across this thread where a concerned Ar Tonelico fan like myself and others were wondering if AT3 would make it here due to many reasons already mentioned. Now we know that AT3 is getting localized but the question now is "Will Ar Tonelico 3 get properly localized?" In order to do this NISA needs to know what the majority of us really want out of the final copy and so that's why I'm carrying out this petition in order to gather a larger community. It's up to you whether you want to defend "freedom of expression" in media or to continue dancing to what society expects of you.

I vaguely seem to recall you claiming that you could gather 20,000 by yourself. I think our membership count has increased by 4 since that time. Assuming that these were 100% your doing, then congratulations are in order, you're 0.02% of the way there. If not, then so far, you've managed to do a lot of soapbox hoarding and expect everyone else to gather at least the remainder of the 100,000.

If your comment was to merely suggest that we gather 100,000 signatures, then I'm afraid that's not something you just decide to do. If it was, it would be done. All the time. No matter what the topic was.

I think I'll just leave this here...
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby magusgs » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:20 pm

robeduriv wrote:I'm getting the feeling that both of you, noexcusepunk and magusgs, are not reading my posts entirely. It might be because of my member status, who knows, but I'll display my gamertag to prove I am an active NISA consumer and appreciate ever little detail their games have to offer. Maybe this will give me the "right" I deserve in this forum for my opinions to be heard.

Me? I don't really care about this. I had no intention of commenting further, but if you want my opinion, I'll give it to you.

I've read all your posts in this topic. You, sir, are a grandstander. This has nothing to do with your post count or your NISA fanship. Your arguments are one-dimensional and your actions are baffling. Why petition to keep a game unaltered when the company has come right out and promised not to alter it?

I must admit I'm also somewhat biased by my innate aversion towards activists, being a solid "apathetic" myself. No matter how well intentioned, activists almost always appear to me as shortsighted and lacking proper perspective--not recognizing alternative ways of thinking or even the scope of the "problem" they're trying to solve.

My advice on how to put this silliness back on track? Lose the activism and embrace a little objectivity. Instead of pushing for signatures and support, shift your course to objectively assessing the attitudes of the NISA audience. This isn't about YOU or what you want, but what the community wants, and what is best for NISA. And give up on AT3 already. It's done. Victory was had.
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Re: Do you think Ar Tonelico 3 will get localized?

Postby vampko » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:59 pm

magusgs wrote:
robeduriv wrote:I'm getting the feeling that both of you, noexcusepunk and magusgs, are not reading my posts entirely. It might be because of my member status, who knows, but I'll display my gamertag to prove I am an active NISA consumer and appreciate ever little detail their games have to offer. Maybe this will give me the "right" I deserve in this forum for my opinions to be heard.

Me? I don't really care about this. I had no intention of commenting further, but if you want my opinion, I'll give it to you.

I've read all your posts in this topic. You, sir, are a grandstander. This has nothing to do with your post count or your NISA fanship. Your arguments are one-dimensional and your actions are baffling. Why petition to keep a game unaltered when the company has come right out and promised not to alter it?

I must admit I'm also somewhat biased by my innate aversion towards activists, being a solid "apathetic" myself. No matter how well intentioned, activists almost always appear to me as shortsighted and lacking proper perspective--not recognizing alternative ways of thinking or even the scope of the "problem" they're trying to solve.

My advice on how to put this silliness back on track? Lose the activism and embrace a little objectivity. Instead of pushing for signatures and support, shift your course to objectively assessing the attitudes of the NISA audience. This isn't about YOU or what you want, but what the community wants, and what is best for NISA. And give up on AT3 already. It's done. Victory was had.

Victory is not had until the Fat Prinny sings... :arrow:
Just kidding around. I apologize if I got a little too agressive, I have been losing lots of sleep as of late, and am not in the best mental state lately.
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