Umineko no Naku Koro ni PS3 Version

[vampko]

I think there is a huge potential market for this.

The fundamental problem, as asked by magusgs is "but how many gamers love to read".

Well, though the answer I think is " a pretty good amount" , it is true that the "core gamer" crowd in the USA
is not as receptive as a whole to VNs and such.

Wha people are missing, is the HUGE female reading community that is into urban fantasy, paranormal romance, sci-fi/sci-fi romance etc. From what I have observed this same demographic plays lots of casual games, and some significant degree of MMO. If you have paid attention to the anime/fansub community over the past few years, you should not but helped have noticed some overlap there as well.

While galges as such certainly would not have much appeal to this demographic, the well written mystery/paranormal mystery/urban fantasy ( F/SN is actually an archtypical urban fantasy btw) with limited or tasteful eroge components ( eroge would likely be OK be fine in many cases, as long as it is not misogynistic/derogatory toward women ) and priced at or less than the cost of a hardback book could do amazing things in this market.

As long as you sought out the proper market. In the USA, the "big money" for these types of works is not in the "core gamer" like in JPN. The money will be in finding the story oriented, game but more casual platstyle oriented crowd, and positioning the works as the real story they are - and moving away from the stereotype of exotic hentai for undersexed nerds. ( even though thats all 80%+ of VNs made in JPN seem to be)

So, you're basically saying this should cost less than $10? If it was $5 I might pay for it. Maybe even a little more. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE reading, but I don't really want to pay for this when it's already out on PC. Unless they add enough content. Then I might want to.

[vampko]

Seeing as it's four volumes..$15 for the whole thing seems fair enough. I can't believe you have to pay almost $40 to buy the PC version...

[Shizuka]

As far as I know, it branches... A lot.

The game has 0 choices, and therefore no "branches" in the typical sense of the word (as used in the visual novel community).

Most Visual Novels have much less gameplay than that, only giving the player/reader a choice every now and then. Umineko has even less than that; the game reads like a book, with no choices or gameplay period.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/971618-umine ... iew-136401

So the game doesn't branch as Higurashi does. Good to know.

[Derid]

Hardback book, not paperback

Not sure what those are going for these days, I haven't bought one since the last GRRM installment several ice ages ago.

As far as regarding this game specifically, and the PC version... well, I wonder how many people are even aware of PC version and any translation patches etc. I was speaking more about the medium in general I suppose, but I can definitely see where people who already obtained a copy and got a T/L patch would be less inclined to pay much for a PS3 version.

My point was simply that the reading market has skewed heavily towards female readers, and the casual gameplay market heavily toward female gamers. As both groups seem to have a reasonable degree of overlap with anime/manga fandom, it seems a very simple leap of logic regarding where you will find the largest potential market for this type of work.

Despite this, in every discussion I have yet to read on the subject - people are still regarding the market, especially markets that are currently niche, in terms of 20-30 something male "core gamers". And I agree, the prospects there are pretty low except among a very niche group that either is really into the "galge" hentai style or the other extremely niche group of people like myself who remember the promise and fun of the aborted genre of western VN/Adventure games like Mean Streets, Martian Memorandum , or Sherlock Holmes for the TG-16 CD-ROM.

[magusgs]

So the game doesn't branch as Higurashi does. Good to know.

Higurashi doesn't either.

An important point to note here is the absence of what is commonly called choices and forks.
This means that you are freed from the tedious saving and loading, the searching for events and routes, and can instead enjoy the story from the beginning to the end.

http://www.mangagamer.com/allages/Title ... n-they-cry

[vampko]

Hardback book, not paperback

Not sure what those are going for these days, I haven't bought one since the last GRRM installment several ice ages ago.

As far as regarding this game specifically, and the PC version... well, I wonder how many people are even aware of PC version and any translation patches etc. I was speaking more about the medium in general I suppose, but I can definitely see where people who downloaded a "free" copy and got a T/L patch would be less inclined to pay much for a PS3 version.

My point was simply that the reading market has skewed heavily towards female readers, and the casual gameplay market heavily toward female gamers. As both groups seem to have a reasonable degree of overlap with anime/manga fandom, it seems a very simple leap of logic regarding where you will find the largest potential market for this type of work.

Despite this, in every discussion I have yet to read on the subject - people are still regarding the market, especially markets that are currently niche, in terms of 20-30 something male "core gamers". And I agree, the prospects there are pretty low except among a very niche group that either is really into the "galge" hentai style or the other extremely niche group of people like myself who remember the promise and fun of the aborted genre of western VN/Adventure games like Mean Streets, Martian Memorandum , or Sherlock Holmes for the TG-16 CD-ROM.

I understand, but I just want branching paths or some sort of interactivity. Plus, I just can't see paying $35 for this. I guess it would really depend on how long they were, but still.

Regardless of all this, this is NOT the right VN to try and introduce America to. They need one that's more interactive, I don't care if it's ecchi or not, I just want interactivity. If they just released it as a DD book, then I guess that would be okay as well. But it's gotta be at the most half of what Agarest cost. considering that's a VN AND an interactive game.

[Shizuka]

Are you saying that Agarest is a VN?

[Derid]

Well, you may have a point there vampko regarding the interactivity.

In the Nasu games I have played, being able to see the characters and story unfold in different ways and from different angles and perspectives was certainly an enormously compelling argument for the medium to me.

Maybe White Album would do better?

[magusgs]

Wha people are missing, is the HUGE female reading community that is into urban fantasy, paranormal romance, sci-fi/sci-fi romance etc. From what I have observed this same demographic plays lots of casual games, and some significant degree of MMO. If you have paid attention to the anime/fansub community over the past few years, you should not but helped have noticed some overlap there as well.

While galges as such certainly would not have much appeal to this demographic, the well written mystery/paranormal mystery/urban fantasy ( F/SN is actually an archtypical urban fantasy btw) with limited or tasteful eroge components ( eroge would likely be OK be fine in many cases, as long as it is not misogynistic/derogatory toward women ) and priced at or less than the cost of a hardback book could do amazing things in this market.

A correction on terminology first: "galge" is equivalent to "bishoujo game". They're games for guys about girls. The words you're searching for are "otome game".

What you're ignoring here, however, is that many Americans view Japanese culture, as depicted through the window of anime, as misogynistic on a very fundamental level--down to even the character archetypes. The entire concept of "moe" is supposedly misogynistic. Seen from that light, the medium innately repels the audience you suggest it should appeal to. If you take a good look at anime culture in the US, it mostly attracts guys. Sure, females gather in certain fringes, but it's dominated by guys. Marketing appropriate games to females would require a 180 turn in the current market--a very specific set of games (otome games are rare in Japan), willing localization companies, and a new way of marketing. This is even less likely to happen than the current male-oriented visual novels spontaneously catching on.

[magusgs]

Maybe White Album would do better?

A game like Fate/Stay Night would be ideal--if it could make any sales after everyone who's remotely interested has already pirated it. A lot of Nitro+'s console games would probably be a good bet as well, as far as pure VNs go.

But really, I just don't see pure VNs catching on in America. It's not what gamers want. At best, VN hybrids with gameplay are the games that can stake out a viable niche.

[Derid]

Wha people are missing, is the HUGE female reading community that is into urban fantasy, paranormal romance, sci-fi/sci-fi romance etc. From what I have observed this same demographic plays lots of casual games, and some significant degree of MMO. If you have paid attention to the anime/fansub community over the past few years, you should not but helped have noticed some overlap there as well.

While galges as such certainly would not have much appeal to this demographic, the well written mystery/paranormal mystery/urban fantasy ( F/SN is actually an archtypical urban fantasy btw) with limited or tasteful eroge components ( eroge would likely be OK be fine in many cases, as long as it is not misogynistic/derogatory toward women ) and priced at or less than the cost of a hardback book could do amazing things in this market.

A correction on terminology first: "galge" is equivalent to "bishoujo game". They're games for guys about girls. The words you're searching for are "otome game".

What you're ignoring here, however, is that many Americans view Japanese culture, as depicted through the window of anime, as misogynistic on a very fundamental level--down to even the character archetypes. The entire concept of "moe" is supposedly misogynistic. Seen from that light, the medium innately repels the audience you suggest it should appeal to. If you take a good look at anime culture in the US, it mostly attracts guys. Sure, females gather in certain fringes, but it's dominated by guys. Marketing appropriate games to females would require a 180 turn in the current market--a very specific set of games (otome games are rare in Japan), willing localization companies, and a new way of marketing. This is even less likely to happen than the current male-oriented visual novels spontaneously catching on.

No, my use of "galge" was correct - because I was referring to the VN as a medium and "galge" type is, as you say, what has thus far caught on "the most". So discussions regarding the topic involve that particular genre.

You are also right about "moe" but IMO moe is crap anyhow. Was amusing for all off of Lucky Star, and to me at least has been boring since. Luckily moe isnt everything made in JPN, even though the VN writers and anime producers sure seemed to be giving it their best shot to do so for a good while.

I disagree about your appraisal of females in anime/manga fandom though, my experience and observation apparently differs from yours in that regard.

As far as what you say about changed marketing and etc, well.... thats pretty much exactly what I was saying. As for chances of it happening... well, hey I am pessimistic about it as well. But at the same time, all it takes is one executive in the right spot to connect the dots, and suddenly everything could change.

It is really not hard to "reposition" products in the public eye, as long as the base material is more suitable for the new position you are trying to find for it. Simply because consumer impressions of things they do not have direct contact with tend to be vague. You pay lots of attention to the current VN world, so perhaps VNs of different types seem inseparable to you. I would assert that isn't the case for someone who had no or little previous exposure, and their first real exposure was properly marketed toward genres that would interest them.

[Derid]

Maybe White Album would do better?

A game like Fate/Stay Night would be ideal--if it could make any sales after everyone who's remotely interested has already pirated it. A lot of Nitro+'s console games would probably be a good bet as well, as far as pure VNs go.

But really, I just don't see pure VNs catching on in America. It's not what gamers want. At best, VN hybrids with gameplay are the games that can stake out a viable niche.

Well I agree, though in large part because Nasu VNs are the ones I have actually played and know well. I have played a couple random galge from Mangagamer some time back, was fairly amusing but not a genre I am "into". But I get bored often, and am always buying random games/books.

As far as them catching on, as you said its not necessarily what a lot of "gamers" want right now.

But.

I do not know if you read, but if you enjoy reading but maybe haven't read some of the following I suggest you do so:

Kim Harrison , Jennifer Estep - Elemental Assassin series, Laurell K Hamilton ( first 10 anita books, after that she went literally off the deep end and became worthless) IIona Andrews , Jim Ward ; etc

Then draw some comparisons to Nasu works, and image both Nasu works in front of the audience of these books, then imagine these books in the same VN format as Nasu works. Ask yourself again if the medium has no potential in the west.

If you come up with the same answer, I will happily concede the debate since I failed to convince even someone who already loves VNs as to the viability.

( Though as an aside, I will still maintain my imagine this as Heavy Rain arguments )

(( Second Aside - Right now Game Career Guide / Gamasutra is having a Heavy Rain design challenge. If anyone reading this is skilled with photoshop and wants to raise some awareness - feel free to go photoshop in what F/SN would look like in Heavy Rains engine http://www.gamecareerguide.com/features/891/game_design_challenge_heavier_.php

[magusgs]

I used to read books. I dropped the hobby when I got into college, then fiction writing soon after. Not sure why, but I never could get into a book after that. Maybe RPGs eventually grew to topple the hobby. And after that I came across VNs. I suppose the medium became obsolete, in my eyes.

[Phoenix_Apollo]

I think that VNs are actually the exact genre I'd like to experience on consoles for once. My favorite games are the games that have a lot of story and are either VNs, VN-like, or comparable to CG movies (especially Ace Attorney). Something like Umineko coming to the PS3 in North America would be ideal for me. I just wish someone would take the plunge!

[vampko]

I think that VNs are actually the exact genre I'd like to experience on consoles for once. My favorite games are the games that have a lot of story and are either VNs, VN-like, or comparable to CG movies (especially Ace Attorney). Something like Umineko coming to the PS3 in North America would be ideal for me. I just wish someone would take the plunge!

VN's are fun. When they have branches. Without any interaction, it's a nice story, but I can read super fast. I would probably finish it in one sitting. is one sitting worth 30+ dollars? Not in my opinion.