Why I think anime is going straight to hell - 12 ep series'

[Neon01]

What's with this trend? It seems like nothing (that I seem to enjoy) is made in the old standard 24-26 episode series anymore. I don't know if it's because of excessive production costs, or what, but it's killing anime for me. Every one of the shows I actually enjoy ends up as a half-baked turd since I'll never see an actual conclusion. This is extremely disheartening too, since I'm usually 2-3 eps in and starting to enjoy it, but I have that nagging thought that they're going to wrap up absolutely nothing in the course of the show. Here are several examples of shows that I enjoyed but was completely miffed about in the end:

High School of the Dead
Break Blade (OVA, but it essentially follows a standard 12 episode arc only in the form of 6 forty min "movies")
Freezing
Infinite Stratos
Demon King Daimao
Horizon to the Middle of Nowhere

And two more that I planned to watch but have zero confidence in wrapping up - High School DxD and Maken Ki.

There are many more, but these are just off the top of my head. I realize that a lot of anime is made from manga, and it's tough to complete an arc when the story just goes on, but it's really a scriptwriters job to pull the relevant parts and made a defined story for the screen. Why can't anime be like the halcyon days in the late 90s/early 00s where a show was one season, and had a complete arc. RahXephon is the pinnacle of anime to me, for this and many other reasons.

Anyone else?

[vampko]

Seems fine to me. And Highschool of the Dead is because the manga moves at a snail's pace, and there was SUPPOSED to be a second season, but it never seemed to pan out. Horizon is due a second season this year.

Anime's an expensive industry, it's just something you gotta get used to.

[Neon01]

Anime's an expensive industry, it's just something you gotta get used to.

See, I recognize what you're saying, but I guess that's the one excuse I don't buy. As proof that it can't be entirely true, I'd say they got along just fine doing 24-26 ep series for over a decade, and things were very very good. Clearly, production values have gone up, but production values aren't what hooks viewers. Just look at NGE. They ran out of budget BADLY within the first 15 or so eps, and later eps literally had 1-2 min sequences using only a single frame. Yet the show gripped the entire world despite it's huge budget deficiencies, and it (contrary to popular belief) actually had a resolution.

There are even modern series - like Steins;Gate, for one - that pull off the standard 24 ep arc, and do it beautifully.

[raspberrylicious]

A lot of people don't have insane amounts of time to devote to anime. Quality over quantity in this case.

[myskaros]

HSoD also has the problem of the source material being on hiatus since Jan 2011.

12-episode anime = 1 TV season, FYI. So RahXephon is a 2-season anime, in terms of TV seasons.

Maybe you're just not finding enough of the 2-season anime that you like. Recently, there's Chihayafuru, Guilty Crown, and Shana 3. Fate/Zero and Rinne no Lagrange are 2-season anime, but are so-called "split cour" so their second halves will have a season's worth of break. Can't think of many other recent ones except, like, Index 2. Bakuman has been getting 24 episodes. TWGOK was split cour. IDOLM@STER was 25, I think.

[vampko]

HSoD also has the problem of the source material being on hiatus since Jan 2011.

12-episode anime = 1 TV season, FYI. So RahXephon is a 2-season anime, in terms of TV seasons.

Maybe you're just not finding enough of the 2-season anime that you like. Recently, there's Chihayafuru, Guilty Crown, and Shana 3. Fate/Zero and Rinne no Lagrange are 2-season anime, but are so-called "split cour" so their second halves will have a season's worth of break. Can't think of many other recent ones except, like, Index 2. Bakuman has been getting 24 episodes. TWGOK was split cour. IDOLM@STER was 25, I think.

I think Mirai Nikki might fit that criteria?

See, I recognize what you're saying, but I guess that's the one excuse I don't buy. As proof that it can't be entirely true, I'd say they got along just fine doing 24-26 ep series for over a decade

you do realize that Japan is in a finincial crisis right now? On top of the economy being horrible, they have horribly low birth rates (I believe the lowest in the world) and the lowest immigration rate in the world. Their population is just barely managing to stay stable right now. As such, they're having a problem with 'who will run the country once the older generation die?' Yes, they still have a large storage of money left, and unlike like every other country they're not printing money that they can't physically represent, but that problem is a huge one.

There's also the matter of attention spans. People have less of them now than they did before. One season shows are doing just fine, and two season shows can lose the interest of people. If they give some time between seasons, that can help alleviate things, but that could also result in them not being able to do the season because of budget cuts/whatever.

There's also the tsunami, that caused TREMENDOUS amounts of damage and depleted their funds GREATLY. If that hadn't of happened, I'd imagine Japan would have been at a better economic state than any country out there. And there's STILL problems that come from what happened back then. Japan is still rebuilding from that horrendous disaster.

There are probably many other factors that I haven't discussed here as well.

I've been having the time of my life watching all these shows, so them being only one season hasn't really caused any hampering in my enjoyment. Plus, there's always that possibility that another season will happen later on.

[LAMV]

I rather series be finished in a low amount of episodes because that's all they need, rather than the American way of dragging a series for 50 seasons before progressing with the story.

[Neon01]

I rather series be finished in a low amount of episodes because that's all they need, rather than the American way of dragging a series for 50 seasons before progressing with the story.

Uk, yeah, except the problem is exactly habit about "finishing" shows. It just doesnt happen in 12 eps. I'm not sure how his point is really being argued.

[Daverost]

It seems like nothing (that I seem to enjoy) is made in the old standard 24-26 episode series anymore.

You're not watching the right shows. Steins-"Best Show of 2011"-Gate says hi.

[myskaros]

Uk, yeah, except the problem is exactly habit about "finishing" shows. It just doesnt happen in 12 eps. I'm not sure how his point is really being argued.

I've watched plenty of shows that end in 11-12 episodes just fine. In fact, every season there seems to be at least one. Funny how that works out.

[LAMV]

Uk, yeah, except the problem is exactly habit about "finishing" shows. It just doesnt happen in 12 eps. I'm not sure how his point is really being argued.

I've watched plenty of shows that end in 11-12 episodes just fine. In fact, every season there seems to be at least one. Funny how that works out.

No, Myskaros, every anime MUST have 100 episodes or the industry will die!


EDIT: Said the wrong name. Eeesh.

[Neon01]

Uk, yeah, except the problem is exactly habit about "finishing" shows. It just doesnt happen in 12 eps. I'm not sure how his point is really being argued.

I've watched plenty of shows that end in 11-12 episodes just fine. In fact, every season there seems to be at least one. Funny how that works out.

No, Neon, every anime MUST have 100 episodes or the industry will die!

Is that my argument? No. I simply said that the model they had with a 24-26 episode arc was perfect, and that model is now on the decline. Daverost's post about Steins;gate is just more evidence of the virtues of the 24 eps arc (btw Daverost, I did mention Steins;Gate as an example of how it can be done right)

I'm not talking about the Bleach/DBZ/Naruto/etc neverending anime here. It's 24 eps, and it used to only take them a year to release.

Either that, or actually write a full arc for 12 eps. I wholeheartedly agree that it is possible, and actually preferable, but it just doesn't seem to be done. Can anyone really refute that any of the shows I listed are actually concluded in a meaningful way in the 12 eps they got? I can't really see how you could.

Hard to believe I don't have a single person that agrees here. Seems to be nothing but, "It's fine the way it is, if you have a problem it's your own fault"

[Neon01]

So RahXephon is a 2-season anime, in terms of TV seasons.

Are you sure?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclo ... 49&page=25

I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but if that's the case, there was zero hiatus between seasons. Even if it was two seasons, shows like rahxephon weren't written for a single season as a sort of pilot, with add on seasons as options to be picked up if it does well. It was picked up for both seasons, and the script was written for the entire 26 eps from the get.

Again, I should have qualified that I have absolutely no problem with 12 ep anime when it's a complete story, but apparently I'm watching the wrong 12 ep anime. I think you mentioned a handful of 12 ep shows that have a complete story, can you list them? Not trying to be an ass, I really want to know. I do tend to prefer shorter anime, provided all threads are tied off and we see sufficient character development. The big exception to this is when they get too short and compress it into a movie or two. For a perfect example I'd submit Macross Frontier. I LOVED the 25 ep show, but the two movies they tried to remake it into just didn't cut the mustard.

[myskaros]

I think why "no one is agreeing with you" is because you're holding 24-ep series on a pedestal and just calling out a ton of 12-ep series. Yes, you are not saying that every 24-ep series is perfect and every 12-ep series sucks, but all you've done so far is a) said that 24-ep series are awesome, here's 1 example, and b) 12-ep series don't end well, here are 5 examples.

In my opinion, the number of episodes in a series has absolutely nothing to do with how successful it is. The writing and the pacing are paramount. Making every series 24-episodes won't magically make the series better; likewise, cutting every series down to 12-episodes won't magically reduce the quality.

In a nutshell, it's less that no one is agreeing with you and more that you're not acknowledging arguments made by other people because you're so hellbent on 24-episode series being the be-all-end-all of good anime.

I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but if that's the case, there was zero hiatus between seasons.

I was just referring to logistics. You know what a "season" is, right? Winter, spring, summer, fall. Each season consists of 12-13 weeks; you can't fit 26 episodes into a single season.

I think you mentioned a handful of 12 ep shows that have a complete story, can you list them? Not trying to be an ass, I really want to know. I do tend to prefer shorter anime, provided all threads are tied off and we see sufficient character development.

I'd love to, but I'm at work so I don't have access to my "collection" *cough* to check which ones I liked.

[Neon01]

Uk, yeah, except the problem is exactly habit about "finishing" shows. It just doesnt happen in 12 eps. I'm not sure how his point is really being argued.

...ugh. stupid auto correct. I should know better than to post on my ipad