Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby Seventh » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:52 am

Daverost wrote:
Galblade wrote:I thought the requests added some stuff to one of the endings? Could be thinking of another game though...
Answering them all with the answers Noire wants to hear is part of getting an extra scene and CG after the credits, yeah.
Wait, all of them? Every single one?
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:54 am

Leon Tekashi wrote:@Shadow: Simple reason.

"Get your hands off my waifu, you damn SI!" :P

this doesnt make sense to me, SI means self insert, aka inserting onself into the universe and story of the game and to be together with the "waifu" of oneself should rather create happiness instead of hate for the SI, that's what I think.
I'd have no problem in a game where I had Nepgear and an SI, okay I dont really call Nepgear my "waifu" as I am asexual, but I really love Nepgear as a person, she is cute, nice and sincere. and being together with a person you like no matter from which perspective should fill one with joy, rather than hatred.
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby Lan-kun » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:07 am

My1xT wrote:
Leon Tekashi wrote:@Shadow: Simple reason.

"Get your hands off my waifu, you damn SI!" :P

this doesnt make sense to me, SI means self insert, aka inserting onself into the universe and story of the game and to be together with the "waifu" of oneself should rather create happiness instead of hate for the SI, that's what I think.
I'd have no problem in a game where I had Nepgear and an SI, okay I dont really call Nepgear my "waifu" as I am asexual, but I really love Nepgear as a person, she is cute, nice and sincere. and being together with a person you like no matter from which perspective should fill one with joy, rather than hatred.


Bruh, you're asexual? Isn't that where you have no sexual attraction to both genders?

...Anyway, you're actually right. Shouldn't be the SI, well, "you"? I think the ones complaining and showcasing their hate about the Secretary (and to an extent, the Producer from PP) must be the vocal yuri fans, imo.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:11 am

Lan-kun wrote:
My1xT wrote:
Leon Tekashi wrote:@Shadow: Simple reason.

"Get your hands off my waifu, you damn SI!" :P

this doesnt make sense to me, SI means self insert, aka inserting onself into the universe and story of the game and to be together with the "waifu" of oneself should rather create happiness instead of hate for the SI, that's what I think.
I'd have no problem in a game where I had Nepgear and an SI, okay I dont really call Nepgear my "waifu" as I am asexual, but I really love Nepgear as a person, she is cute, nice and sincere. and being together with a person you like no matter from which perspective should fill one with joy, rather than hatred.


Bruh, you're asexual? Isn't that where you have no sexual attraction to both genders?

...Anyway, you're actually right. Shouldn't be the SI, well, "you"? I think the ones complaining and showcasing their hate about the Secretary (and to an extent, the Producer from PP) must be the vocal yuri fans, imo.

the the question about the attraction, yes that's true, there is not much beyond friendship to me, in other words, I am the eternal friendzone, so to speak.

and well I may correct you about the second point, it's probably more about the male yuri fans, I mean the females can insert themselves and it doesnt rly harm the yuri (lol)

the only time when I'd hate an SI would be if he is just an ass or alike as in SOME (not that many) scenes in PP for example
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby Seventh » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:15 am

That's a pretty big leap in logic. There are a plethora of reasons for why one might not like the Secretary or the concept of an SI in a previously story/character-driven series, and especially when this particularly entry was introducing so many new ideas that other games hadn't and likely won't ever again.

Personally though I'm more disturbed that the idea of being able to enjoy stories as a viewer, rather than an active participant, is apparently something that isn't allowed anymore, which is especially odd considering it's been how every other game in the series worked.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby vampko » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:21 am

Seventh wrote:That's a pretty big leap in logic. There are a plethora of reasons for why one might not like the Secretary or the concept of an SI in a previously story/character-driven series, and especially when this particularly entry was introducing so many new ideas that other games hadn't and likely won't ever again.

Personally though I'm more disturbed that the idea of being able to enjoy stories as a viewer, rather than an active participant, is apparently something that isn't allowed anymore, which is especially odd considering it's been how every other game in the series worked.

Personally I self-insert better into characters that aren't meant for it. Blank slates are actually much harder for me to relate to, surprisingly
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:23 am

and what is that "plethora of reasons" well you dont have choices and the SI acts as written beforehand which can sometimes be bad, like in that scene in PP with Noire and obviously the male yuri fans, okay thats what I give you, but what's else?
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)

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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:32 am

My1xT wrote:and what is that "plethora of reasons" well you dont have choices and the SI acts as written beforehand which can sometimes be bad, like in that scene in PP with Noire and obviously the male yuri fans, okay thats what I give you, but what's else?

Self Inserts are tricky business. Even if you feel you can self insert because you can relate, that doesn't mean you can relate to everyone.

Let's say you self insert into a character with money troubles. Then you suddenly have a bunch of lines that speak of that, but also speak of an interest in something you would never have an interest for? That's why blank slates are many times easier to self insert into. The problem isn't so much whether they like something or not for me. I just can't stand someone being so vehemently against something being made as if it hurts your ability to enjoy other things that aren't of that nature in a series.

Some people like self inserts. Some don't. But most I've seen who like the game enough aren't going to berate a non self insert the way many berate this game. There's far worse games that do far worse disrespects to a name. Such as remakes that are even worse than the original edition. Like Sonic 1 being remade into a game where the camera is so shit that it ruins the experience.

But so far yuri fans aren't the problem. It's the plethora of people who exist in places like Nepgen and the majority of /u/ who are so downright outrageous in their taste that they treat it like the supreme race of genre's that hate self inserts for being self inserts regardless of execution. Those are the kinds that can't appreciate anything else just because one aspect is in a game. Or two. Cause most of /u/ has a super big anti-male sentimentality from the many visits I take their to read up on some series I have an interest in. The same thing happens on /a/. Downright foolishness that seems to be as radical as it can get at times.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby iguanaman » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:38 am

The people who complain are the heavy anti-SI's, people who haven't played the game that want to be cool. Luckily, only a select few idiots on here are like that. :) people like Vamp bring good arguments, though.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:41 am

iguanaman wrote:The people who complain are the heavy anti-SI's, people who haven't played the game that want to be cool. Luckily, only a select few idiots on here are like that. :) people like Vamp bring good arguments, though.


The main arguments are about not relating as far as I can see. And you can't really relate to a blank slate. But even then, a vehement hatred is something else. It's fine to have no taste for something. But when people pretend like it's the biggest disrespect to a series ever, it's just going into a deep cesspool of ridiculousness.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby Seventh » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:50 am

My1xT wrote:and what is that "plethora of reasons" well you dont have choices and the SI acts as written beforehand which can sometimes be bad, like in that scene in PP with Noire and obviously the male yuri fans, okay thats what I give you, but what's else?
Whether or not the SI has choices doesn't make them not an SI.

Regardless, how about the three points I raised in that post? Not to mention what I was saying earlier. When you get down to it, the Secretary and his relationship with Noire, SI or not, is a superfluous subplot that eats up screentime in a game that already has a lot of issues with pacing and screentime as it is. This is a game that tried a lot of new things that likely won't be tried again, and almost all of them were really unique and interesting. Adding in an SI on top of them, whether they're male or female and even if there's no romance, was doomed to be met with a lot of people who didn't like it.

Conversely, PP was ultimately something more focused on the relationship between character and SI, and I think, if nothing else, it at least benefitted from that much.

iguanaman wrote:The people who complain are the heavy anti-SI's, people who haven't played the game that want to be cool.
While I admit my issues became less after playing the game myself, I don't think it's unreasonable to think people who played the game didn't like it.

Personally I think the issue isn't so much SIs but that this particular game didn't need one and perhaps shouldn't have had one.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:56 am

Seventh wrote:
My1xT wrote:and what is that "plethora of reasons" well you dont have choices and the SI acts as written beforehand which can sometimes be bad, like in that scene in PP with Noire and obviously the male yuri fans, okay thats what I give you, but what's else?
Whether or not the SI has choices doesn't make them not an SI.

Regardless, how about the three points I raised in that post? Not to mention what I was saying earlier. When you get down to it, the Secretary and his relationship with Noire, SI or not, is a superfluous subplot that eats up screentime in a game that already has a lot of issues with pacing and screentime as it is. This is a game that tried a lot of new things that likely won't be tried again, and almost all of them were really unique and interesting. Adding in an SI on top of them, whether they're male or female and even if there's no romance, was doomed to be met with a lot of people who didn't like it.

Conversely, PP was ultimately something more focused on the relationship between character and SI, and I think, if nothing else, it at least benefitted from that much.

iguanaman wrote:The people who complain are the heavy anti-SI's, people who haven't played the game that want to be cool.
While I admit my issues became less after playing the game myself, I don't think it's unreasonable to think people who played the game didn't like it.

Personally I think the issue isn't so much SIs but that this particular game didn't need one and perhaps shouldn't have had one.


I'm pretty sure EVERYONE aside from the CPU's and the villain were pointless additions once you get past their rebellious side. Like adding nothing but battle fodder. Pretty much only useful for waifu bait.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby Seventh » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:09 am

The premise of the game is that you're a console based character in a world called Gamarket where IP based characters are their generals. Limited screentime though they may have had, them existing ties a lot into the game's concept. Maybe not the amount of them, but that ties into the fact that this game in particular is an SRPG, and a larger roster of playable characters becomes more necessary there more than in the main games, as well as the whole market idea. Other SRPGs have given characters time only during recruitment before and they'll do it in the future. That in itself isn't as much of a problem.

If anything, Neptune, Vert, and Blanc would more be the pointless ones in the setting if the game's plot wasn't kicked off by Noire trying to find a way to do things more amicably. The generals are kind of necessary, though - they're built into the point as the game is now, even if they had been non-playable bosses.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby DragonKingKaiser » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:15 am

Seventh wrote:The premise of the game is that you're a console based character in a world called Gamarket where IP based characters are their generals. Limited screentime though they may have had, them existing ties a lot into the game's concept. Maybe not the amount of them, but that ties into the fact that this game in particular is an SRPG, and a larger roster of playable characters becomes more necessary there more than in the main games, as well as the whole market idea. Other SRPGs have given characters time only during recruitment before and they'll do it in the future. That in itself isn't as much of a problem.

If anything, Neptune, Vert, and Blanc would more be the pointless ones in the setting if the game's plot wasn't kicked off by Noire trying to find a way to do things more amicably. The generals are kind of necessary, though - they're built into the point as the game is now, even if they had been non-playable bosses.


It's still pointless. There's so much more they could have done with Noire. And Neptune the other CPU's really weren't pointless as far as the generals are. They could have had better reason to help Noire since we would think they'd be closer to her than some randomly made new additions never seen in any other game. They could have had far more point than just being waifu fodder to send into battle. The generals points are this. New friends. New party members. Really they don't actually have anything necessary that would be needed that couldn't be placed into a smaller cast. They're waifu bait. Waifu material with nothing but a bunch of cute quirks that are meant to be friends with Noire and her tsundere archetype.

That's as pointless as an SI lover who's basically there to be her friend, and potential romantic interest. This is why Comics are many times berated for it's flaws. So many writers, so many characters, it gets hard to write coherently and properly without making pointless additions. And the genre's and types don't matter. It's the idea of massive character lists. Comics have lots of characters. So does this game. So it's very comparable.
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Re: Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart

Postby My1xT » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:18 am

Seventh wrote:
My1xT wrote:and what is that "plethora of reasons" well you dont have choices and the SI acts as written beforehand which can sometimes be bad, like in that scene in PP with Noire and obviously the male yuri fans, okay thats what I give you, but what's else?
Whether or not the SI has choices doesn't make them not an SI.

I didnt say that an SI is not an SI give a player a lot more chance to relate to an SI, that was the point

@DKK true it's probably a bit hard to relate to some empty SI with literally nothing, and equally hard to relate to one who is too much off from oneself, I give you that and that's where we could use some choices like in PP

@7 and many things like "those games needs/doesnt need one" or similar are imo more subjective than objective, also as I said as the SI s supposed to be oneself unless you dont like noire there's no problem with a bit of relationship between the 2.
bit that's just my opinion
I never intend to rant, insult anyone or anything like that. I just want to express my oppinion, and if I appeared so, sorry in advance.
Also if I am capsing, I either accidentially hit caps or I am too lazy for using bold bbcode (especially on phone)


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