CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Rednal » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:33 pm

Yeaaaaah... even if my personal interpretation of her character is in the minority. XD Maybe the anime helped?
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Seventh » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:37 pm

Rednal wrote:Yeaaaaah... even if my personal interpretation of her character is in the minority. XD Maybe the anime helped?

I honestly still don't see that much difference between the two. People put way way way too much weight on V's slapstick. :?
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby TheDefenderOfEarth » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:47 pm

Plutia is too one dimensional to be liked. All she had going for her was her sadism, which fans didn't care for. The anime toned that down a lot, and it's better to get rid of negative traits than to try and build up positive ones to counter act it.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Wdog-999 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:50 pm

Well, first of all, good job IF on being second! Granted, Neptune's the main character and Noire's last spinoff had that self-insert guy, so they got a disadvantage right out the gate given that a part of this poll was to help determine what the next spinoff should be, but still, nice job. :D

In any case, seeing a Blanc or IF spinoff would be nice, though I'd honestly prefer the IF spinoff if only because a maker-only thing would be nice to see (assuming that's what we got, anyway).
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby NoireRulz » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:02 pm

ivanchu77 wrote:5-Noire: 24,619

"These results this time... Oh, well. I guess everyone likes a change once in a while. I can let it slide."
[b]


I rather like this line....but a tsundere line would've been better :lol:

....don't worry Noire, you're still no. 1 to me :P.

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Rednal wrote:and go Plutia. :lol:

No kidding. I was legitimately (and pleasantly) surprised that she ranked so high considering all the hate she received back during Victory's release run.


When time passes, the hate for a character cn tend to die down.


That is true.

I was never fond of Iris's sadism, I'm starting to not hate her for it as much now.

I still don't really like the character, and I still hate 2 of her scenes.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Beedlebud » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:06 pm

Noire's line makes sense though, considering she already has her own game.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Seventh » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:14 pm

@Defendah and re: Ploosha
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I'd say she had a fair bit more than that, V's script just tended to not focus on those things nearly as much. She's probably... no, I'd almost even say easily the second or third most nurturing CPU after Vert without including Rei, for one thing. V didn't really focus on it nearly as much as they did the gags, but it was still there often enough, and even as Iris that trait popped up at least once or twice, though I admit it's been a while.

So from my end, I'm not really sure how she's drastically less dimensional that the other characters - perhaps some in that she's only had the one game, but look at how much a simple anime appearance as done for her. If anything, I'd say it's more V just had problems with how much of certain aspects of her it focused on her over others in its love of reusing the same jokes over and over and over and over and over, which led to one dimension shining significantly more than the others. The anime just rectified that by mitigating which parts of her they paid attention to rather than actually changing that much of her character - her sadism was still there, they just didn't focus as much on it neeeaaarly as V did.

To that end, I wouldn't even call the sadism a negative trait in the first place, just, potentially, how it was used specifically in V. Personally, it never bothered me any and I find the typical fan reaction way out of proportion to what actually happened in the game, but that's just me. She's not coming back any time soon from what I can tell, and the anime "improved" it, so it's not really an issue anymore anyway. Either way, any trait can be "negative" if it's not handled well by whoever's writing it or if it's used to the point that all of the character's other character traits get overshadowed, and that's really what happened with her.
Herp derp I probably got waaaaay too wordy here, but oh well. :lol: I'll spoiler it since no one cares about my rambles and since I'm getting into criticizing a game, it's a bit off topic now anyway.

NoireRulz wrote:
ivanchu77 wrote:5-Noire: 24,619

"These results this time... Oh, well. I guess everyone likes a change once in a while. I can let it slide."
I rather like this line....but a tsundere line would've been better :lol:

Looks like one to me. It's just not a super blatant I-IT'S NOT LIKE I W-WANTED TO BE IN F-FIRST OR ANYTHING, B-BAKA one.

Wdog-999 wrote:In any case, seeing a Blanc or IF spinoff would be nice, though I'd honestly prefer the IF spinoff if only because a maker-only thing would be nice to see (assuming that's what we got, anyway).

I kinda doubt it would've been only the makers. To get a decent sized cast for that, they'd either have to make a lot or get pretty much all of them together. :shock:
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Rednal » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:17 pm

*Sees Plutia's sadism as one of her less-defining traits* :? *But toooootally aware he's probably in the minority about that* ... *Though Seventh seems to get at least some of it*

I'll laugh if Blanc's game comes out on a Lastation system, though... :lol: Hard to say if that would be success or failure.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Wdog-999 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:20 pm

Seventh wrote:I kinda doubt it would've been only the makers. To get a decent sized cast for that, they'd either have to make a lot or get pretty much all of them together. :shock:


They have a fuckton of them from Noire's game alone, not to mention the 8 you can get in Re;Birth1 alone (and then RED could be a possibility, which would bring it up to 9). I'd say if they got pretty much all of them together, it would make for a more than decent cast. Hell, a game with just the main series makers that are available would be a pretty good sized cast. I'd rather this series not overload the cast too much with a bunch of characters. As it is, the Noire game apparently barely did anything with its 19 or something new makers/gamesonas/whatever.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Seventh » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:24 pm

Rednal wrote:*Sees Plutia's sadism as one of her less-defining traits* :? *But toooootally aware he's probably in the minority about that* ... *Though Seventh seems to get at least some of it*
It and her sleepiness are to her as tsundere is to Noire as getting angry is to Blanc and as being a fujoshi is to Vert and so on - but they're all more than just those things, at least as I've seen. V just kinda... really favored that one thing a lot more than others. :? I still love it, but it could've done some things a lot better there.

Rednal wrote:I'll laugh if Blanc's game comes out on a Lastation system, though... :lol: Hard to say if that would be success or failure.

I'd rather it does. The Vita games are starting to look really nice (doubt it'd be PS4) and I can't imagine they'd want to make their 3DS debut with a spinoff just for the sake of a joke.

Wdog-999 wrote:They have a fuckton of them from Noire's game alone, not to mention the 8 you can get in Re;Birth1 alone (and then RED could be a possibility, which would bring it up to 9). I'd say if they got pretty much all of them together, it would make for a more than decent cast.
Oh, them. :lol: Wouldn't they be like... Mades rather than Makers though? I'm only thinking about the official company girls and Tekken here with makers.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Wdog-999 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:27 pm

Seventh wrote:
Wdog-999 wrote:They have a fuckton of them from Noire's game alone, not to mention the 8 you can get in Re;Birth1 alone (and then RED could be a possibility, which would bring it up to 9). I'd say if they got pretty much all of them together, it would make for a more than decent cast.
Oh, them. :lol: Wouldn't they be like... Mades rather than Makers though? I'm only thinking about the official company girls and Tekken here with makers.


Meh, I guess. Though even with 8-9 characters (10 if they could bring back 5pb.), I'd say that's a good cast number. Enough characters to provide for a good plot and allow for some gameplay diversity, but not so much that it overloads the plot with a bunch of characters who get underdeveloped and leads to inevitable sameness and/or uselessness among some characters because there's really only so much that you can do with the characters.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby TheDefenderOfEarth » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:31 pm

As Iris Heart, she had no interaction with anyone other than being sadistic to them. One of the defining moments was her with Noire. The fans would negatively react given Noire was super popular at the time. Iris did the same with Nepgear, and Nepgear being treated like garbage during the entire plot was negatively received as well. Generally, don't screw around with fan favorites and you'll be fine. She directed that toward the enemies in the anime, which gave her the desired redemption.
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby vampko » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:47 pm

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:As Iris Heart, she had no interaction with anyone other than being sadistic to them. One of the defining moments was her with Noire. The fans would negatively react given Noire was super popular at the time. Iris did the same with Nepgear, and Nepgear being treated like garbage during the entire plot was negatively received as well. Generally, don't screw around with fan favorites and you'll be fine. She directed that toward the enemies in the anime, which gave her the desired redemption.

I liked how she interacted with Noire >.>

It was when she wasn't interacting with Noire that I got annoyed
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby Seventh » Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:09 pm

And again I got much too long. Sorry Defender! And anyone else reading it I guess? Yeah, I'm probably being really annoying at this point. :lol: You guys can have ginger snaps for putting up with me.
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TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:As Iris Heart, she had no interaction with anyone other than being sadistic to them.
Well, what about with Rei at the end of the game? Or when she's trying to talk to kid IF after accidentally scaring her? That one even has a CG. And it also conveniently covers the "one or two as Iris" I mentioned! Yes, moments like what you describe were most definitely the majority of her appearances, but that not only doesn't account for Plutia's appearances when she's not transformed or being that way, where were at least somewhat more spread out, it doesn't account for the small minority of Iris' when she's not being that way too. Though to clarify a bit, I was talking Plutia as a whole before, not just Iris Heart, since I did separate Iris Heart somewhat by saying "even she had one or two moments like this" there.

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:One of the defining moments was her with Noire. The fans would negatively react given Noire was super popular at the time.
Maybe... the fans overreacted? Neptunia has plenty of gags and jokes that have no meaning beyond delivering a laugh in the one scene. Not to mention the idea that fan favorites can never have anything negative happen to them just stunts what they can do with the writing.

That's not to say the joke was a good idea in the first place or that it couldn't have been significantly tamer, but I just honestly don't see the big deal. Perhaps some of the jokes with Iris were in poor taste, though that's part of the deal with humor. They've obviously learned from it, so like I mentioned, nothing can really be done now about that one. Time will tell whether we see her again or a new and improved version of her again. Maybe RB3's new content will be better and received well enough that she'll even get a second shot someday.

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:Iris did the same with Nepgear, and Nepgear being treated like garbage during the entire plot was negatively received as well.
Well, I'm not arguing that - I agree with it, even. :lol: You can go back and see that in plenty of posts. Still, Iris wasn't the only one who did that sort of thing, that's again more on CH overusing their gags, some of which may not have been the best ideas for gags in the first place, a lot in that game.

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:Generally, don't screw around with fan favorites and you'll be fine. She directed that toward the enemies in the anime, which gave her the desired redemption.

Sort of got at it a bit above, but why not? I agree the joke was used far more than it should have been, and at times it could have been toned down for sure, but I don't see why everything has to be sunshine and rainbows 100% of the time. So the characters argue sometimes, maybe some of them have a rivalry and fight, and maybe one of them is a sadistic type of gal.

If they'd written it well, it could have been very, very welcomed. "The lovable sadist" idea isn't exactly a new one. Hell, Senran Kagura has at least two to varying degrees now - which gets back to my original sort of main point, that it's not that the trait is inherently bad, just that how it's used can be. V didn't use it too well - rather, it used it far too much. I think we're in agreement there, if nothing else? What I'm saying is that that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used at all, just that they need to, or should, improve it.

I honestly think it's less the character that's the issue and just V's direction with things as a whole, since a lot of these things, like certain things getting way more focus than others/than they should, show up elsewhere in the game. Admittedly, it's a bigger issue with Plutia since she got a decent amount of the focus there, and also of course because it's the only game she's shown up in where she actually has a role.

That said, on the other hand, I think giving anyone the kind of buttmonkeying or bullying or whatever you want to call it that the writing of V at large gave a few characters, Nepgear among them, is something that we're probably better off without. Some conflict and friction is one thing, but that sort of thing is just... yeah. :?

Anyway, despite the tl;dr that might imply otherwise, it does sort of seem to me like we do actually, mostly at least, agree? I'm just looking at the oversaturation of the sadism as a symptom of V's writing flaws as a whole rather than as a fault of Plutia the character. Ah well. :geek:


So did IF say when they're actually going to do something about this poll in any of these new messages with the winners, if they even really intend to, by the way?
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Re: CH made a OFFICIAL popularity poll to decide protagonist

Postby TheDefenderOfEarth » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:31 pm

Yeah, you and I actually do agree on it for the most part. I've got no argument against the fact that she was poorly written, that being IF and CH's doing. I will say that Iris is the most memorable feature she had. Plutia, for all her worth, never stood out. When people look back, they'll generally think, "Man, Iris was a piece of shit to my favorite character. How am I supposed to like her?" And as we all know, the most hardcore fans are also the most vocal.

Now then, I can't really accept her "saving" Rei as an act of redemption, mostly because according to the polls, posts I've read, fanart, etc. Rei's just not popular. Had she displayed that sense of affection towards the main cast instead of probably whipping them to tears, I likely would have appreciated her more. :lol:

I'll chalk it all up to bad character development. Her being sadistic isn't a real problem by itself. How it was used against her allies was.
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