Unfortunately disappointed.

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Benanator
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Unfortunately disappointed.

Postby Benanator » Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:55 pm

So far I am extremely disappointed in Mugen Souls, I try to support NIS America and buy any game I can actually play that they put out. That said I am usually happy with the games (More or less). Mugen Souls has just aggravated me and annoyed me, and I am sad to say I regret my purchase. I apologize in advance for sloppy grammar and the wall of text, but there won't be a TL;DR.

First, nothing seems balanced at all. As soon as the Mugen Field was unlocked I gave it a go. Now before I say anything else I have never bet over 100 points (the minimum you are allowed to bet) My first time through, I was around level 12, I gained 20 levels, my second time through, witch was soon after the first, my characters were all level 55+ some over 60. It feels as though the Mugen Field levels me far to fast ... but then you have to use it to unlock, well, everything, so I'm not just going to ignore it. I didn't really have a huge problem with all my characters being level 100 by chapter 5 because I liked going through the mugen field. The problem seems to be the ship battles. In the Mugen Fields they seem to be super easy and give more exp than I have ever seen. And if you encounter it late enough in the field you can have a very large bonus to exp. Again though, I didn't really have a problem with my characters gaining levels so fast and so easily, as it doesn't seem to overpower you that much. I still can't one shot everything with my regular attack and my HP doesn't seem to be as high as I would have expected it to be at level 100. I only opted to increase my level cap once I got to chapter 7 and mobs were getting to about level 60. However, the items you get from the mugen field are all garbage. Even when the mobs I am fighting are in the 50s I am getting level 1 weapons/armor... I just don't understand why that would be.

The Moe Kill system, however, just makes me want to punch my TV. It has way to many variables and limitations. First the variables, Moe type, mood, and then the choices you have to make. When you Moe Kill every selection but the last seems to be random, and sometimes doesn't fit at all. For example, I will often get Smile/Kind while using Sadist. Seems like a lose-lose choice to me. Every different monster type has a different Moe, but I can't just keep changing forms, because that is EXTREMELY limited. More often than not I just chose to not Moe kill anything and just kill them all. Then you throw mood into it and everything becomes a headache. Ranging from super happy (Heart eyes) to super angry, but I have no idea what effects this has on what options during a Moe kill. I would assume (unless they like a Sadist or Terse) that being nice would always be a good option for any mood. That is not the case. Still don't understand half of the system. So to try and enjoy the game I have chosen to largely leave this system alone, but that seems to have lead me to hit a wall in chapter 7 (I'll explain later).

The Peon ball system also makes me want to just quit the game and bash my head on my desk. To lower the % (I forget what the Skull % Stands for, but it kills my entire party when it happens so might as well just call it Death %) I have to activate Peon command and can't play the game how I would like. I would even prefer to just opt out of being able to use the Peon ball at all to get rid of this annoying system. Half the time I am given a command that is impossible for a character to do on their turn. For example if my death% is getting so high I need to activate peon command on the first turn and I choose to defend with Chou-Chou to give the chance for more -% I get "Use special skill" on my first turn... I have yet to have a chance to build PP, guess I have to take a hit. "Use enhancing skill" on a character that has none, great. Then half the time I do complete an action it only takes away 1%. The only commands that seem to lower my % a reliable amount ever is killing an enemy or getting a # hit blast off combo. Nothing else seems to make a big impact and prolong my misery of, not only being restricted in how I play, but also a game of chance if it is even possible to complete the action at all. I just hate not being able to just play how I would like. And my entire active party being one shot by the peon ball if the % gets too high is just ... well its dumb, I seem to be lacking in Peons so I don't understand why it would be strong enough to kill my entire party. The first time it happened to me was after my entire party was level 100. They were all full health, and all died instantly, Even Shirogane who has the highest health of all my characters.

Last (that I am going to mention now) but not least, is the G-Castle Battle system. The battles themselves are really easy to understand and when fighting a ship of equal level everything is fine, and I don't mind it at all. However, I have run into an extremely annoying road block in my game (The entire reason I decided to voice my disappointment on the forums). So far, even in the Mugen Fields the G-Castle battles have all been really easy. In the Mugen Fields, even when the mobs far out-leveled the mobs at the current part of the story, my Ship was always MUCH stronger than the enemy. Even ships in the mugen field that would give enough exp to level my characters 10+ times were no match at all, if they could damage me at all it was so little I never had to defend/heal. However, I just reached the end (I assume) of chapter 7.... 2 Ship battles in a row, both ships are three times as powerful as my ship. The first has 500,000 HP and can destroy me in 3 hits. The second has 600,000 HP and can destroy me in 3 hits as well. My ship has 170,000 and can only damage these ships with reflected attacks. If either one uses pierce attack three times in a row there is no hope for me, even if I heal every turn, I'll die. I can beat the first ship my just reflecting almost every turn and HP absorbing until I am healed after every hit. I have yet to be so luck with the second ship. I can't fathom how strong my G-Castle was expected to be at this point in the story. Apparently I am going to have to grind out 3 times the amount of Peons I currently have. (I have ~5000) So I have to use the Moe system that also annoys the heck out of me, or grind kills for a few weeks before progressing in the story at all ... The problem is that I am so aggravated with the Moe-Kill system that I rarely use it. I only really use it when the big Crystal happens to match the Moe I started the battle in. If the form change wasn't so limited I would use it a lot more. in fact I had chosen to put Chou-Chou in "Graceful" and just leave her in that and only Moe-Kill enemies/crystals that were that type. I assume this has put me way behind in the amount of peons I was expected to have ... Even though I leveled enough to reach level 100 before the end of chapter 5, even choosing to not raise my level cap just so the enemies could catch up.

I just don't understand how I could be so far ahead in levels while being so far behind in peons that I can't progress in this section of the story while all the monsters are half my level. Even if I was using the Moe-kill system more (I do use it a little ...) the form change is so limited during battle I can't imagine I would have that many more peons unless I was just grinding peons. Thats what I am going to need to do anyway though.

I could go on, but I won't... but I could.

EDIT: I suppose the entire reason for this post is to ask for advice/help with the Moe-Kill system so maybe I can start enjoying this game ... but at this point I highly doubt I will be enjoying it any time soon.

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Re: Unfortunately disappointed.

Postby vampko » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:07 pm

Moe Kill Guide
And you only have to go in Mugen Field once. That's it. You never need to step foot in it again.
I don't understand the Peon ball problem, but maybe it has to do with me doing moe kills 90% of the time? And no, I don't use that guide (though I will be in my second playthrough), I just have been figuring out things as I go.

Let me explain though:
Benanator wrote: but then you have to use it to unlock, well, everything,

That's only for Peons and it can be helpful in equips that you get and stuff. But you don't need to use Mugen field at all to advance through the game. And the only reason you might want to head into Mugen field is to unlock additional equip slots and stuff, which is done by using Mugen points. Which you get much more abundantly during story. In Mugen field the amount of Mugen Points you get is atrocious. So you really only need to grind around in the worlds for a while, then hop into Mugen Field, clear 10 floors, and unlock everything. There are hidden classes and other stuff, but that's only really for Peons. And Peons aren't actually all that useful unless you want to seriously use the fusion system. The story characters are just fine really.
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Benanator
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Re: Unfortunately disappointed.

Postby Benanator » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:35 pm

vampko wrote:Moe Kill Guide
And you only have to go in Mugen Field once. That's it. You never need to step foot in it again.
I don't understand the Peon ball problem, but maybe it has to do with me doing moe kills 90% of the time? And no, I don't use that guide (though I will be in my second playthrough), I just have been figuring out things as I go.

Let me explain though:
Benanator wrote: but then you have to use it to unlock, well, everything,

That's only for Peons and it can be helpful in equips that you get and stuff. But you don't need to use Mugen field at all to advance through the game. And the only reason you might want to head into Mugen field is to unlock additional equip slots and stuff, which is done by using Mugen points. Which you get much more abundantly during story. In Mugen field the amount of Mugen Points you get is atrocious. So you really only need to grind around in the worlds for a while, then hop into Mugen Field, clear 10 floors, and unlock everything. There are hidden classes and other stuff, but that's only really for Peons. And Peons aren't actually all that useful unless you want to seriously use the fusion system. The story characters are just fine really.


Thanks a lot for the reply and the guide, I'm going to be trying to just grind peons and that will make it much less miserable. Although I tend to dislike looking up guides I doubt I would have been able to figure out half of these emotion things on my own. A lot of it is the opposite of what I would have assumed on my own. I actually like going through the mugen field, the super power leveling just caught me by surprise. I like to unlock things as soon as I can so I do run through the field a lot. Thats why I am so surprised at how weak my ship is vs the two in chapter 7.

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Re: Unfortunately disappointed.

Postby ZekeFreek » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:53 pm

This is sooooooo not the game for you, pal.

This is sad, considering its easily their best battle system to date. It is limiting early on though.
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Re: Unfortunately disappointed.

Postby GirlMageLover » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:20 am

I agree on most points. Peon Ball Explosion is a silly mechanic. It's abusable though. Kill Chou-Chou / Switch Chou-Chou out before it explodes. If her turn is up next and you have no time to switch out, you can try to knock an enemy into her to get her killed. Otherwise, Peon Ball itself is wickedly strong and if you set up your turn order right can make the rest of the game a breeze.

G-Castle battles are rock paper scissors. I just spam Pierce to win. If you're at an early enough stage that your G-Castle can't perform well, you need to find an enemy that gives decent Shampuru counts and level it up. The fastest way early game is to just max% each available continent, I think.

Moe Kill system is neat, gimmicky and mostly a cop-out for not being strong enough in a battle. Of course, it is also great for making money and matter end game, but that's not the issue here. Guide or not, if you just have a decent charm level, Moe Killing is very easy.

The EXP balance to peon balance is ridiculous for sure, but if you have no problem surviving and destroying enemies at will, you can easily grind out extra Shampurus. I'll probably be starting a new game soon to start a route for speedrunning the game. Figuring out the best way to collect Shampurus early game will be an important part of that.

If I find any additional information I'll let you know. I feel your pain, but I've found ways past all the hatred. When you realize how much there is to do (if post-game if your thing) maybe you'll come to like it better.

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Re: Unfortunately disappointed.

Postby Hokami » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:43 pm

GirlMageLover wrote:Moe Kill system is neat, gimmicky and mostly a cop-out for not being strong enough in a battle. Of course, it is also great for making money and matter end game, but that's not the issue here. Guide or not, if you just have a decent charm level, Moe Killing is very easy.


i stopped using moe kills after unlocking the 10million TCS as this gives gives about 80-100 hits per blast off in fever mode (i only use moe for frenziing the big crystal). Using a four character party you will get about 90-100% multipliers if the enemies dont interfere for four enemies. A map with at least six enemies will only result in about 80% (but gives bonus peons ;))

I didn't look at the ship stats before i changed to Islang sized peon ball so i can't say if they get a boost too but if your Peon Ball isn't Island size yet you'd might give it a try. It should unlock at chapter 7 or 8 with a total of 1000 peons (i think :D )

it's not exactly like you though with the different moes. I didn't look into the guide so blame me for wrong inforamtions but phrases like "kind" or "smile" will increase frenzy most of the times. in the mugen field there are events involving chou-chous forms giving an idea what kinda phrases are fitting (like CC hyper likes to play resulting in hitting/hurting other people).

I only know two commands that only give 1-2% and those are "don't move" and defend. The others give more more % and i recommend to use peon fusion with the chars beside CC in your main party to get a enhancing skill and a healing skill (it doesn't even matter which one. You could also use cure skills). I usually go for healing commands and blast off commands (ignoring the combo ones).

The mugen field isn't for farming equipment ( later on u will unlock the 7 World Redux, there you get the chance to get decent equipment) but it offers an option to farm billions of cash easily via fever mode.
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Re: Unfortunately disappointed.

Postby elfolampo » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:32 pm

Benanator wrote:I just don't understand how I could be so far ahead in levels while being so far behind in peons that I can't progress in this section of the story while all the monsters are half my level. Even if I was using the Moe-kill system more (I do use it a little ...) the form change is so limited during battle I can't imagine I would have that many more peons unless I was just grinding peons. Thats what I am going to need to do anyway though.



The thing about moe kill and changing personality, is that you can change your personality more often the higher your charm is. So once you start grinding shampurus, you will, in fact, be less limited. Right now I have 22 charm average, so I can change form 22 times before returning to the castle. By the way, the strength of ships encountered in the Mugen Field depends mostly on the bet, and it's not really related much to the floor you are on. Also, angering the large crystal isn't too bad for getting more shampurus either, since you get a good boost on drops from that, too, and angering it is usually much simpler than charming it. In short, it's not too difficult.


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