MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here-)

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MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here-)

Postby Rednal » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:49 pm

Houk edit: This is a good post, and saves me the trouble of having to make something similar myself. With that, I'm going to add a couple of official notes, in no particular order.

1. For those of you wondering what exactly is being cut, it is indeed the bathing minigame and the associated CG images, just like in the first game. And unless some unknown content surfaces down the road we're not currently aware of, that's it. We're not changing any character personalities, we're not cutting/toning down other elements. And the gameplay benefits you receive from this game will be implemented in some other way (we're still working on that) so you won't lose anything gameplay-wise.

2. We are keenly aware of the feedback a number of people gave us regarding the first game, and we knew it would be an issue when we picked up Mugen Souls Z. But we are doing what we believe is in accordance with our views as a company. We understand if you can't support that, but we will not be changing our stance on that anytime in the near future.

3. For those of you who would implore us to "let another localization company have the series," Idea Factory is an independent developer and is free to pursue whatever other opportunities they like. Knowing this, they understand where we're coming from, and are working with us to release a product we can all be happy with.

4. This does not, and I can't stress this enough, does NOT reflect a broader philosophical approach to our localization process. We evaluate each game on an individual basis when decide what, if anything, needs to be changed or removed. That's how it's worked up till now, and that's how it will always work.

I'm speaking as an official representative of the company, so you're free to take that for whatever you think it's worth. But it is our stance, and you're welcome to discuss it but it won't be changing for this particular title. Oh, and...

5. Rednal covers it below, but I would like to emphasize how important it is that everyone be respectful and cordial with each other. This is not a request. If things start turning personal, combative, or just plain mean, I won't hesitate to respond in brutal RoboCop fashion. Now then, on with the show...

----------------------

With the announcement of Mugen Souls Z, I'm sure some of you are concerned about the announcement of content editing and have something to say about that.

Please post it here.

Everyone else, if people begin talking about that subject, please direct them here - this will prevent every thread from turning into one repeating the same subject.

And for everyone, I want you to know that I have played and beaten the game in Japanese - I've seen all the modified content in its unedited form, and I know exactly what I'm talking about.



The Big Rule

Be civil. I know you may be upset. I know you may want to complain. I won't try to say that any of your feelings are wrong, but I will ask you to behave in a way that's appropriate for a PG-13 forum. You may object to the company's actions, but personal attacks, swearing, etc. are not appropriate. Please make your comments in a civil manner.



About the bathing minigame:

This is almost certainly the content that's being modified, so before you freak out about censorship, I think you should know what the content being edited actually is. ^^ It looks like this:

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As you can see, it's fanservicey as heck - the minigame in Mugen Souls Z permits you to clear soap off of characters, then turn around and turn their bathing suits skin-colored to suggest the idea of nudity.

"Hey, Rednal." You might be saying. "I don't think that needs to be edited."

Well, if it was just the character up above... you'd probably be right. Worse has been published in NISA games, and with a Teen rating at that (hot spring bathing scenes in the first Mugen Souls, for example, or even Atelier Meruru). If you think this isn't worth modifying somehow, I understand how you feel and you do have a point.

The problem is that it's not just characters like this one; it's also very, very obviously underage little girls being subjected to this pseudo-nude situation, complete with erotic moaning. This... is not really in line with everything that all gaming companies would want to do. I am not a spokesman for NISA, but speaking personally, I doubt they want to promote the objectifying of little girls. And before you get too upset, consider Etna's appearance in Disgaea D2. Consider Ar Tonelico Qoga, and Hyperdimension Neptunia, and all the other games they publish that have loads of fanservice. This is not a fanservice-shy company. This is not an anime-style nudity-shy company. They have a long track record of accepting this stuff - which should tell you something important about the content.

As for the minigame itself, it isn't fun. Really. It's okay to do about once per character, but it's kind of time-consuming and doesn't give much of a feeling of reward - there's no challenge, no score, and nothing that really makes it interesting. If you really want fanservice of the characters, it should still be in the game - there's lots of dirty hot spring scenes and all. NISA's edits will be minimal. Not gratuitous. They're not objecting to fanservice, and you're probably an adult that knows what you want. Our culture does have some limitations, though - please try to understand that they do the best they can. You aren't missing very much, and this game is a huge improvement over the first. It's a fun game at its core, filled with zany antics and great characters. It is a great game for anyone who likes NISA-style products. If you don't want to buy it because of the most minor editing they feel they can get away with, I honestly think you'll be missing out on a really fun game...

And not encouraging them to go for the most fanservice-y stuff they can in the future, either. When you support the company, they can do more. When stuff gets published that pushes at the limits, it helps to expand people's horizons and make the same content more acceptable in the future. Buying this game will help bring fanservice over, not stop it, because it signals to the companies that games like this are valuable. ^^


Now, I know you still have your own thoughts, so please feel free to discuss them below. And remember, please be reasonably civil. Even if you object to their actions and are upset, being polite is much more likely to get a response from them. ^^ Okay?
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby lopez » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:02 pm

To add to Rednal's comment: please be respectful and follow the forum guidelines for commenting. This is a forewarning to all.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby ChirunoHakurei » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:03 pm

Meh I don't really mind too much as long as that particular minigame is all that they remove... could have been worse really.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby OverlordG » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:04 pm

Just get the CGs online like R. Bison here did (I'll probably stop calling you that very soon Rednal) or watch the minigames on Youtube or whatever video streaming site has them. Problem solved. Cutting this from the localized version won't make me burn down an entire city.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby darkrchaos » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:12 pm

I still like my idea of NISA making it so you can't make the cloths see-through or wash the soap.

Can we get the post game images for the west, there even less revealing.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:19 pm

That's probably up to what they feel like their budget can support - NISA hasn't even announced the extent of the changes, and for all we know, they actually have the time/budget to keep it in this time, only with mild changes. ^^ That'd be nice. And probably make a lot of people much happier.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby darkrchaos » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:24 pm

Also noting this, last game they said the pictures don't get AO but mini-game itself does. Does that mean we could at least have the CGs?
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby killer9i1994 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:29 pm

I really wouldn't be too upset if the minigame is removed as long as the CGs and other stuff doesn't get removed or censored.

I just freaking hate our culture sometimes. A censored anime character merits an "AO" rating but yet full nudity, mass murder, rape, theft, etc. in Western games is just fine for a rated "M" game.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Coreven » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:29 pm

Just call me when NISA starts learning from their mistakes. Learning at all, rather. Shooting themselves in the feet is their specialty, apparently.
Rednal wrote:this will prevent every thread from turning into one repeating the same subject.
But that's positive. It shows people care. If it's all in one thread NISA can just pretend it doesn't exist.
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Who am I kidding, they'll just pretend it doesn't exist anyway, and if not, make it not exist by banning people who bring it up.
Last edited by Coreven on Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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<Guyincognito> Very informative. I'm so glad there is a resource for info where threads stay on topic and don't instantly descend into pointless bullshit before dying
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:37 pm

Oh, trust me, they know. :lol:

But NISA's not terribly heavy-handed with the banning. o.O Discussions and all have always been fine - it's when people are rude and insulting that problems happen, which is why I'm asking for everyone to be reasonably civil here. If they are, they'll be able to speak without worry.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby chouchou's peon » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:02 pm

Rednal wrote:And not encouraging them to go for the most fanservice-y stuff they can in the future, either. When you support the company, they can do more. When stuff gets published that pushes at the limits, it helps to expand people's horizons and make the same content more acceptable in the future. Buying this game will help bring fanservice over, not stop it, because it signals to the companies that games like this are valuable. ^^

I really like this quote Rednal, when we're supporting niche companies like NISA releasing fanservicy games it should help get rid of the censorship situation because it encourages the company to release fanservicy games and not avoid them.

Nobody knows what kind of edits they are making yet and maybe we get some of CGs we thought we wouldn't see.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:03 pm

It's probably best to wait for official word on that... I might just go ahead and ask them directly, really, though they might not know the exact extent of the changes yet. On the other hand, the company has consistently been honest and open about what they're doing and why they're doing it, and I respect that a lot. ^^
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Coreven » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:07 pm

u rusin me m8? NISA is the most non-transparent localization company I know.
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<Guyincognito> Very informative. I'm so glad there is a resource for info where threads stay on topic and don't instantly descend into pointless bullshit before dying
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby chouchou's peon » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:15 pm

Rednal wrote:It's probably best to wait for official word on that... I might just go ahead and ask them directly, really, though they might not know the exact extent of the changes yet. On the other hand, the company has consistently been honest and open about what they're doing and why they're doing it, and I respect that a lot. ^^

Hahaha, you're right. Nobody can predict the future unless we create it like Sonic CD but we'll see what lies ahead.

I honestly thought this game had no chance of coming over and everyone tried to bring me down and say it's a waste of effort to try hope for Mugen Souls z but I still kept the faith regardless.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Houk » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:20 pm

Coreven wrote:u rusin me m8? NISA is the most non-transparent localization company I know.


Nah.

Anyway, everyone please read the updated OP with my added comments.
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