The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

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The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby gaelstrom » Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:50 pm

Put simply, this is a plea as a long-time fan of the games and NISA's work to increase localization since early on when localization was far more risky.

I understand that players recognized the PS3 crashing and known errors were in one or two cases considered random, and I have only one question for NISA. And that is can we be assured since this is a re-release that all the necessary steps been taken to repair the game breaking bugs and other bugs that have been reported by the community as best as possible? I understand you are at the behest of a larger Japanese publisher. It's obvious NIS Japan stands to profit from the re-release more than actually repairing the PS3 version, and it's obvious an accountant calculated it was not worth the repair vs PR benefit for the game's sales/reputation retention to create a patch. As distasteful as that is, it is understandable for niche titles. This is a new profit and console however, and there is no excuse.

Please tell the community what is being done to make sure localization is tested and translated with attention to detail. I was a tester for years. I have spent the hours running into all walls finding holes with the fastest character moves to find out if it breaches the barriers, I understand what it takes and how it can be done efficiently with a small team so I am not asking as a petulant gamer.

I'm basically requesting that NISA prove that the quality is recovering, as it has been difficult to want to support the localization while watching quality diminish inexcusably over the years. Localization is now big enough that I'm no longer going to be guilted into supporting localization just for the sake of localization, quality must be there as well.

We may have only been a measly 30,000 sales in NA in the first 10 weeks of release according to vgchartz compared to Japan's 85,000, but that is still $1.5 million at $50 average per game, and another 15,000 sales afterward, even at $20 for price drop that's an additional $300K. We do make up a large enough swath of additional profit that NIS Japan needs to recognize that it's starting to wear on us and cost sales as consistent quality drops occur over and over. All of my friends who have pre-ordered collectors editions and collectively spent thousands over the years have stopped, they've had enough of accepting bugs that are inexcusably missed (for example Ar Tonelico II's tower boss crash was the beginning of the end). I will be doing the same if this proves to have such bugs.

May we request a statement assuring that testing will sincerely be done to make sure this game will do everything possible to avoid the same issues?

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby vampko » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:43 am

gaelstrom wrote:May we request a statement assuring that testing will sincerely be done to make sure this game will do everything possible to avoid the same issues?

Even if they give a statement, that doesn't mean a lot. You would want a statement saying they're not going to abandon the game after release, and just let it be mired in bugs.

I say the statement doesn't matter, because they're obviously not gonna say otherwise (if they give a statement). I don't doubt they're working hard at QA, doing the best they can with what they have. But that's just not enough sometimes. And a lot of the times, once a game is out in the wilds, that's when bugs really show their faces. Which is what happened with Witch 100. But, what didn't happen, was NIS Japan feeling we were worth spending the time/effort on to fix the incredibly vicious bugs the game had.

gaelstrom wrote:I understand that players recognized the PS3 crashing and known errors were in one or two cases considered random

This doesn't excuse things when those bugs could make someone lose 20+ hours of gameplay (I lost over a hundred myself). It was a problem that definitely should have been fixed.

BUT

I surmise they figured since they were already at work on a PS4 port, it was pointless to bother with.

So, I'm sure they'll do something about it even if it gets bugs post-release (it will)
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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby The Sneaky Prinny » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:22 am

Hell, if the crash bug is just plain immortal and transcends consoles, they could at least mitigate the issue by tossing in an autosave feature every time you ended a stage or interacted with a pillar. Yes, it's a band-aid to fix a crippling wound, but it would definitely be better to loose minutes rather than hours due to random crashing, and autosave is everywhere these days anyways. It could at least show that they are trying, even if they can't do anything about it.

I can accept a bug or two now and then. It happens. But it has already passed the point of worrisome when the last game NISA touched that wasn't buggy was GFP. Maybe D5, but it's still early. I've heard whispers of a crash or two there. Something's got to change, man! What went wrong after Disgaea 4?
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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby shadowmaksim » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:00 pm

The Sneaky Prinny wrote:What went wrong after Disgaea 4?


Last I checked, it could be due to NIS losing a bunch of employees sometime back in, I think it was, 2013 (I need to fact check that date). Yeah, there's been bugs prior but they've definitely seem to have gotten more persistent around then.

Of course it could be due to just about anything else, but with very little to go off of...that's what immediately comes to mind, at least for me.

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby gaelstrom » Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:57 pm

Honestly I'm not forgiving of crash bugs, but I understand (barely) they exist and can be missed as games are more complex. Especially now that console games can be patched, it's just not something that can be forgiven. And I forget if Sony penalizes companies with charging for patching, but if they do, that's Sony being schmucks, but still the sales of games are affected by reputation, especially on a long enough time line (which is starting to reach the tipping point).

My request was mainly following the understanding that NIS Japan rules the kingdom of decisions related to the sub-par testing that has been caused over the past years, whatever the case may be, issues are not addressed on either side of release. That's why I chose my wording as I did. I'm not unreasonable because I worked in the industry, but I also know exactly how much game companies are getting away with stuff that they wouldn't 10 years ago.

And marketing teams try to go the opposite direction with "If it sells well, (insert hollow promise)" for several companies, it's just not funny anymore.

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby solechris » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:33 am

i already answered this before but, during my entire playthorugh of WItch and the Hundred Knight Revival, i did NOT encounter any bugs.
the game ran flawless also there isnt any gamebreaking glitch.

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby gaelstrom » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:04 am

solechris wrote:i already answered this before but, during my entire playthorugh of WItch and the Hundred Knight Revival, i did NOT encounter any bugs.
the game ran flawless also there isnt any gamebreaking glitch.


You not having experienced it makes you one of the lucky ones, that's all. It's obvious the bugs exist, there is enough evidence of it across the net, it's been reported, but the issue was tracking it costs the team time from their other game testing to locate it for a patch they make no additional money on. Although I stand by that if they had repaired the bug, sales would have increased accordingly as well, as that does have a statistically direct effect on reputation. In the past there are instances of game companies surviving by reputation when their games had issues and were addressed with a loyalty to the product.

There's no question that the cost/benefit ratio was calculated in at least one corporate meeting, and even I know it was probably a no because of the unknown costs, but now there's no excuse, it has to go through testing again anyway.

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby shadowmaksim » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:23 am

I'd just like to note that how the Japanese version of the game performs may not be representative of how the English version performs.

While the Japanese version may already have the English audio/text options...it's still very possible that something can get screwed up on the conversion out of Japan. There's still some programming that probably needs to be done, like making all the English options default instead of the Japanese option for example.

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby The Sneaky Prinny » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:15 pm

I don't recall ever hearing that the JP version of the original Witch and the Hundred Knight had the crash bug to begin with. I could be wrong, but it was my understanding it was localization only.
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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby shadowmaksim » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:48 pm

Based on what I heard, the JP of the game also had it but it was a lot less frequent. To the point that some thought that could just have been basic system problems instead of something with the game itself. When it got localized, the issue got a lot worse apparently.

And it's not like this is the first time something like this has happened. "Mugen Souls Z", if you know that game, also had something similar happen to it. In the JP version, the sleep ailment didn't work at all. But when the game was localized, the sleep ailment from Slumbering Bosses in the Mugen Field caused the game game to crash/freeze on top of the sleep ailment just not working in general (though both were actually fixed later on with a patch).

Again, I don't know if this is actually true or not. Just going by word of mouth from the people I've seen who've played the JP version of the game and spoke up about it.

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby solechris » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:18 pm

i never played the ps3 version so i dont know about all the bugs but if the ps4 version has bugs as well then yea i must have been real lucky because my playthrough was near flawless. everything in the game is already been translated to english btw even the menus. i do agree that just because the JP version has no bugs that doesnt mean the american release will be the same, but as of right now, i did not encounter any glitches or bugs in my playthrough of the game on PS4.

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby Aikia » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:04 pm

The digital, physical versions of JP and NA both all have the crash bug.

I bought the Revival version on ps4 from the japan store, and just a few minutes ago the game crashed when I was in the tower of illusions floor 2 while clicking on a pillar to distribute my stats...

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby bonito » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:51 am

After D2, W100 and other .. why should one ever buy a NIS game again?
Having bugs .. not nice - but well you could patch them .. leaving huge bugs in the game .. is a no go.
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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby solechris » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:04 am

Aikia wrote:The digital, physical versions of JP and NA both all have the crash bug.

I bought the Revival version on ps4 from the japan store, and just a few minutes ago the game crashed when I was in the tower of illusions floor 2 while clicking on a pillar to distribute my stats...


this is weird, i bought the revival edition as well (physical copy) and already beaten the tower of illusion without any sort of problems.
maybe i am the the lucky person who did not encounter any sort of bug while playing this game at all. i am going to go back to the underground tower of illusion to see what happens.

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Re: The Obvious Question: Will the PS4 Revival have done everything possible to repair the bugs?

Postby vampko » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:40 am

solechris wrote:
Aikia wrote:The digital, physical versions of JP and NA both all have the crash bug.

I bought the Revival version on ps4 from the japan store, and just a few minutes ago the game crashed when I was in the tower of illusions floor 2 while clicking on a pillar to distribute my stats...


this is weird, i bought the revival edition as well (physical copy) and already beaten the tower of illusion without any sort of problems.
maybe i am the the lucky person who did not encounter any sort of bug while playing this game at all. i am going to go back to the underground tower of illusion to see what happens.

Or Aikia is the unlucky person. For research: Are you using the English text?
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