Official Neptunia Victory Topic

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Sik
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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Sik » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:14 pm

vampko wrote:Anyway, some things cannot be translated. Try making honorifics make sense in the English language, it's not gonna work. Try making a joke about the writing of a kanji versus the sound of someone's name in English. There are many more instances of this.

And some things just really won't make sense. Like a nod to an obscure cultural situation that even the natives aren't likely to remember.

I wouldn't want the Japanese to have to listen to some joke about gespacho and beer milkshakes, so why would you want to listen to something from them like that?

The problem is that NISA went as far as replacing some references that in fact are probably better known in the Western side than in Japan... And even then some jokes would translate properly as-is due to not relying on wordplay or references or anything like that, and NISA goes as far as replacing those too. In fact, I think NISA doesn't leave any reference intact. And then there are the cases where NISA decides to add its own stuff where there was none.

At least not as bad as certain company that just asks for a vague idea of what's going on and then writes a completely new script from scratch. They aren't much into RPGs these days though.

PS: for the record, honorifics can be localized well, if you take into account the context. It's probably that things like -san and -chan would be left out once idiom is taken into account, but -sama is likely to get translated to something. It's not like honorifics are exclusive to Japanese, it's just that it has many more honorifics than Western languages.
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Porecomesis wrote:That's like a country asking to stockpile all the nukes in the world. Or vertical09 offering to let the cast of the game sleep in his house.

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Ringwraith » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:34 pm

MizuMikomi wrote:Fanbases are ridiculous by nature, why limit your observation solely to Neptuina and NISA's involvement?
Aside from that, it is our duty as fans to let a company know when we feel that they have screwed up. Who else are they going to turn to for a brutally honest opinion—themselves? That's laughable at most.

We criticize, because we love the series, but don't like some of the changes surrounding. What's so ridiculous about that? What's wrong about having an opinio—oh wait, we've had that argument before.

The fact of the matter is, some changes are ignorable for some, while they aren't for others. There is no reason for either party to get their nickers in a bunch because there isn't an agreement between both.

That, my friend, would be ridiculous.

Though there's also being unreasonable, and when "fanbases" start being so, then you have a problem, as you start getting things being blown out of proportion for no good reason, and no-one ends up happy.

Sik wrote:PS: for the record, honorifics can be localized well, if you take into account the context. It's probably that things like -san and -chan would be left out once idiom is taken into account, but -sama is likely to get translated to something. It's not like honorifics are exclusive to Japanese, it's just that it has many more honorifics than Western languages.

Though they tend to make things really awkwardly-paced if you use them all, you can strike a balance though by just retaining usage of equivalent terms at key points (again, can't over-do it or it doesn't flow right in English, as people don't talk like that), or just leave them in if it's almost completely necessary for the setting in question (Persona 3 & 4 spring to mind here).
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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Sik » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:53 pm

Ringwraith wrote:Though they tend to make things really awkwardly-paced if you use them all, you can strike a balance though by just retaining usage of equivalent terms at key points (again, can't over-do it or it doesn't flow right in English, as people don't talk like that), or just leave them in if it's almost completely necessary for the setting in question (Persona 3 & 4 spring to mind here).

That's exactly what I meant though. Honorifics like -san and -chan are used with people you speak in normal situations and English doesn't have honorifics for those, so you just drop them. When you use -sama you're placing the other person above you and English has honorifics for several of those situations, so the relevant honorific should be used (again, context matters when choosing which honorific to use).
Sik is pronounced like "seek", not like "sick".
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Porecomesis wrote:That's like a country asking to stockpile all the nukes in the world. Or vertical09 offering to let the cast of the game sleep in his house.

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Wdog-999 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:29 pm

Ringwraith wrote:
MizuMikomi wrote:Fanbases are ridiculous by nature, why limit your observation solely to Neptuina and NISA's involvement?
Aside from that, it is our duty as fans to let a company know when we feel that they have screwed up. Who else are they going to turn to for a brutally honest opinion—themselves? That's laughable at most.

We criticize, because we love the series, but don't like some of the changes surrounding. What's so ridiculous about that? What's wrong about having an opinio—oh wait, we've had that argument before.

The fact of the matter is, some changes are ignorable for some, while they aren't for others. There is no reason for either party to get their nickers in a bunch because there isn't an agreement between both.

That, my friend, would be ridiculous.

Though there's also being unreasonable, and when "fanbases" start being so, then you have a problem, as you start getting things being blown out of proportion for no good reason, and no-one ends up happy.


Neither is getting into an argument about where the two sides are so out of synch with each other that there's no forseeable end to the argument that doesn't get everyone angry at each other. The way I see it, just let people bitch if they want to instead of starting a giant fucking argument about it and alienating everyone in the process. While it may be annoying to some, it's best to just ignore it the best you can and let things proceed like normal. It's when you decide to tell someone to stop bitching that everything just turns to shit because more than likely, they aren't just going to stop bitching because you tell them to because in their mind, they have every right to bitch if they don't like something. Personally, I don't think it's that big of a deal whether a few lines are changed in the localization, but I'm not going to go chastising the people who do care because I can already tell it'll just lead to an argument, so why bother?
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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby vertical09 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:58 pm

My problem with it wasn't that the line wasn't translated literally or anything. I already know that doesn't work.
I just felt like, after the stream, NISA was dropping Mugen Souls on Neptunia a bit much. But now that I know that's not the case, it doesn't matter to me anymore.
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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Porecomesis » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:50 pm

I'm of the opinion that it is alright to make tweaks to the dialogue to make it suitable for the other culture- the honorifics example, just for one- but it's important not to sacrifice the original meaning of the dialogue, like with the CFW Magic dialogue we all saw several pages ago. That was an example of a taken liberty that was entirely unnecessary and ultimately detrimental to the game.

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Eyeshield » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:08 am

Porecomesis wrote:I'm of the opinion that it is alright to make tweaks to the dialogue to make it suitable for the other culture- the honorifics example, just for one- but it's important not to sacrifice the original meaning of the dialogue, like with the CFW Magic dialogue we all saw several pages ago. That was an example of a taken liberty that was entirely unnecessary and ultimately detrimental to the game.



Expound please?
Walking the universe.

Check out my crossover Neptunia fanfic Chronicles of The Walkers: FateNeptunia if you want to. I hope you like it :)

The Planeptune arc has ended! Next time, Lastation comes in!

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Porecomesis » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:07 pm

Eyeshield wrote:
Porecomesis wrote:I'm of the opinion that it is alright to make tweaks to the dialogue to make it suitable for the other culture- the honorifics example, just for one- but it's important not to sacrifice the original meaning of the dialogue, like with the CFW Magic dialogue we all saw several pages ago. That was an example of a taken liberty that was entirely unnecessary and ultimately detrimental to the game.

Expound please?

Well, as several others have already stated, you can't translate everything. Some things just can't be translated while some other things just shouldn't be translated, like honorifics and some jokes. I understand that tweaking things a bit is necessary. I mean, I watched JesuOtaku's review of Mahoromatic and Kamina forbid we go down that road of literalism.

However, it gets taken several degrees too far with the Neptunia franchise. This problem is only worsened by how it goes too far on a different road. I haven't played Hyper Dimension Neptune mk2 and I never will so all I know comes from other people but, on top of the CFW Magic example, CFW Trick's character was changed from someone who (I think) worshipped little girls in a sense to... that. Deliciously hammy he is but there is a certain creepy factor to everyone's favourite teddy-dinosaur. I'm entirely okay with taking liberties but, when the original meaning or tone is compromised, one must take one or two steps back.

Please make sure not to take everything I say seriously: I just woke up and I'm not feeling too good, partly because of personal reasons and partly because it's raining and I can't hang out the washing.

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Aserrisnepnier » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:18 pm

MizuMikomi wrote:
Beedlebud wrote:I feel like in here everyone just has to focus in and criticize every single line of dialogue that may even be a little different from the japanese version.

It is a clear showing that we are fans. We're brutally honest about the games we love, is there really anything wrong with that?

yes, it means you are a hardcore weeaboo & need massive help, bro.

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Porecomesis » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:19 pm

Aserrisnepnier wrote:
MizuMikomi wrote:
Beedlebud wrote:I feel like in here everyone just has to focus in and criticize every single line of dialogue that may even be a little different from the japanese version.

It is a clear showing that we are fans. We're brutally honest about the games we love, is there really anything wrong with that?

Yes, it means you are a hardcore weeaboo and you need massive help, bro.

Oi now, let's not go name-calling, alright? We're all decent, civilised people here.

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Zaku-prinny » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:33 pm

... so, how many more days until V comes out?

There's so much debate going on here...

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Porecomesis » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:37 pm

Zaku-prinny wrote:... so, how many more days until V comes out?

There's so much debate going on here...

March 12th for you lot, March 15th for us Australians. Lucky jerks. -_-

And debates are intellectual and brain-stimulating. Join the fun. :lol:

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby MizuMikomi » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:39 pm

Aserrisnepnier wrote:
MizuMikomi wrote:
Beedlebud wrote:I feel like in here everyone just has to focus in and criticize every single line of dialogue that may even be a little different from the japanese version.

It is a clear showing that we are fans. We're brutally honest about the games we love, is there really anything wrong with that?

yes, it means you are a hardcore weeaboo & need massive help, bro.

Oh look who's back....much to our dismay.

Anyway...congratulations! You've managed to take a generalized statement and turn it into slander against fans of Japanese animation, games, and culture—what are you going to do next? : D
Eyeshield wrote:Pore, he is MIZUMikomi. Mizu is water. Water is formless, constantly changing shape, adapting to the surroundings... To succeed in life, one must be formless, like water... :ugeek:

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Aserrisnepnier » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:57 pm

I'm a fan of japanese games too. & I like animu, but that does not mean I bitch and moan about every little change in a localisation regardless of how shitty the localisation quality is.

yeah V's localisation quality is pretty shit but you know what? I can care less because there are better games out there. I'm going to use my money that went towards Neptunia V on a new PC so I can play kickass games like Ys, Legend of Heroes, L4D2, super meat boy, dark souls, etc.

besides, XSeed, atlus and gaijinworks deserve my money more

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Re: Official Neptunia Victory Topic

Postby Zaku-prinny » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:07 pm

Porecomesis wrote:
Zaku-prinny wrote:... so, how many more days until V comes out?

There's so much debate going on here...

March 12th for you lot, March 15th for us Australians. Lucky jerks. -_-

And debates are intellectual and brain-stimulating. Join the fun. :lol:

Well, my brother's getting V. I'm mainly a spectator when he plays when I feel like watching. I don't feel like a jerk for getting V early. I'm not playing it.

Don't involve me in debates of any kind (like politics). It's not a pretty sight.

This debate, however, I'll say that I see it as nitpicking over stuff like keeping certain dialogue intact versus adjusting them to fit other audiences in the world. While the removal of the Pokemon reference I think was a bad call (I mean by now about the majority of the planet knows or has heard of Pokemon), some of the Japanese dialogue and Japanese-centric jokes and puns would probably not make as much sense to me since my understanding of the Japanese culture is only by glance and meager research. Sure, you can say that fans want the complete package (I understand that nobody wants to feel ripped off of anything), its just that when translating, there will be parts that have to change or else anybody who would be interested in playing who knows little to no knowledge of the culture would seem lost or confused. Heck, if it wasn't for the translations and English dub, I would have never knew that this game existed.

I'll say that I wouldn't care much about how content was shown as long as it is entertaining as well as it was worth very penny. It it sucks, was a disappointment, or just not understandable, I'd sell it just to be rid of it.

But hey, to each their own, right? Is this a purpose of a forum, to be mature members that acknowledge others opinions despite the differences and to find like-minded individuals to discuss about all things related to their fan-dom (to an extent)?


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