It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

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cress
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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby cress » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:30 pm

Yeah, I do have to admit that the combat can be almost too easy, but on the other hand I don't mind the lack of frustration. Also, I find myself hardly ever using the time effects, especially the rewind.
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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby will57 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:37 pm

cress wrote:Yeah, I do have to admit that the combat can be almost too easy, but on the other hand I don't mind the lack of frustration. Also, I find myself hardly ever using the time effects, especially the rewind.

The time spells for me turn out to be very helpful during the fights that are actually difficult, like against some sub quest specific enemies and probably the boss at chapter 3 that apparently quite a few people are having trouble with. I will agree though it's not needed very often.
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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby fortune_exe » Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:48 am

I picked this game up a couple of weeks ago mostly because of my obsession for NIS stuff now. The only other NIS game I've played so far has been Hyperdimension Neptunia, but I desided to try out Time and Eternity all the same. I was actually very surprised at the combat system. It's something that I personally haven't seen in a game before(although I know this type of combat exists in other games) and I was quite pleased at how it turned out. The main reason I liked the Hyperdimension Neptunia games was that I could sit back and relax while playing the game and while getting into the story so the long story segments in Time and Eternity aren't a downside to me at all. All in all I am very pleased with this game so far. I don't quite understand where all of the hate is coming from.
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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby tilinelson2 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:48 am

I have finished this game a few days ago and I quite liked it. The story is traditional of romantic comedy animes/mangas with some penchant for absurdities. The whole time paradox thing is meant to be entertaining, but not analyzed deeply.

Despite the perv jokes, Zack is not unlikable, and I think that, in the end, Toki and Towa's feelings for him is much more justified than most of the games where just being the hero is enough for the "perfect girl" (when not all the girls) to be madly in love with the protagonist. Most of the other characters are fine too. They are mostly run-of-the-mill people with common personal issues and I tend to favor that to big magical settings with world-ending conspiracies.

The gameplay is better than the standard random-encounter-turn-based fare. The use of spells and skills is important, as blocking and dodging too. Unlike some critics say, the controls are not unresponsive. It is just that they didn't get the mechanics right. I would appreciate if there were more enemy varitation, though.

Overall I appreciated it as a non-pretentious game focused on being fun and not overtly complex. The game is not award-winning material, but critic reaction has been disproportionate.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby kanade2 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:40 am

Just going to keep this short given I already know the responses I'll get if I spend a hour trying to justify the critic's opinions about the game.

Many critics just can't get past the flaws that Time,and Eternity has,and some are disappointed that the many interesting ideas,and concepts were not executed that well. After renting this game myself, I can kinda see some of the frustrations they had with the game. In this case I think it's better to consider some of what the negative critics have to say over trying to defend the game as Time,and Eternity wasn't really a big hit for any groups of consumers out there.

Time,and Eternity really needed a developer that had the time,and budget to work on it,or even a kickstarter as Image Epoch with some help from Namco( read the interviews to see their involvement in this) just wasn't enough to tackle this time consuming,and expensive project.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby tilinelson2 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:30 pm

^ The general impression that critics give is that it is one of the worst (if not the worst) game of the generation because the combat is broken, the graphics are terrible and the story is ridiculous because the protagonist is the worst ever (since he makes perverted jokes, there is nothing likable about him).

It is radically different than saying that the game had some interesting concepts that were not implemented that well.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby kanade2 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:48 pm

tilinelson2 wrote:^ The general impression that critics give is that it is one of the worst (if not the worst) game of the generation because the combat is broken, the graphics are terrible and the story is ridiculous because the protagonist is the worst ever (since he makes perverted jokes, there is nothing likable about him).

It is radically different than saying that the game had some interesting concepts that were not implemented that well.


People being disappointed over the concepts not implemented well is just one factor that contributed to the bad reception.People not being able to overlook the flaws,or having too high of a expectations for this game are some other reasons that contributed to the poor reception of the game.

As for Zack ,well it's just hard for many people to like him when you tend to hate him right off the bat for his attempted actions,and comments . People in general just struggle to relate,care,or sympathize with him even with the character development he gets. At the end of the day the whole cast for T&E is forgettable as they really have nothing going for them that makes them stand out. I can't even name one person out there that has really fallen in love with theses characters,and can talk for hours on end about them.

At this point I don't really see the point of defending this game,or saying the negative criticism is unfair when the game didn't really go any where unlike the first HDN game which gave life to a fan base even with a poor combat system,and negative reception against it.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby tilinelson2 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:12 pm

Because you said so, it is set on stone. No one can have the opinion that the criticism towards Time and Eternity was exaggerated. Let's close this entire forum section.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby kanade2 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:06 pm

tilinelson2 wrote:Because you said so, it is set on stone. No one can have the opinion that the criticism towards Time and Eternity was exaggerated. Let's close this entire forum section.


Just because " I " don't see the point behind such opinion doesn't mean anyone including you is forbidden to have,and express such opinions in the first place.

Before you get further upset just remember that this topic has many posts where people are proving someone's opinion as false with a one sided slaughter without seeing it from both sides. Beemail's,Rednal's,and even some of my recent posts are a fine example of this as we made comments that don't take into consideration of the other side's opinions in any way.

I'll wrap things up with saying that things probably won't change for niche JRPGs in the west until both sides are willing to see things from both POVs,and some compromise,or middle ground is reached.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby tilinelson2 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:48 am

Look, I am not against you having your opinions, but the way you word some of your sentences is not good. Like when you say that people are "proving someone's opinion as false". No one can prove people's opinions as false. Opinions are opinions and have the same value, whether they are with the majority or not.

Being so, what I think most people who are saying the game is not that bad is not saying that the opinions of the critics are wrong, but that the flaws were presented in an exaggerated way because the game is not broken, unplayable or blatantly offensive to the point of being considered one of the worst of the generation. Some reviews that break down the scores in categories even go as far as giving the lowest score for music, for example, when the music is not even mentioned in the review, only the cheap animations and the "mysogynistic jokes of the hateful main character".

And your point about JRPGs in the west is what? People are not allowed to enjoy a game anymore despite criticism from "official" reviews? People can't go to the subsection of the forums of that niche game's publisher to share their opinions with other fans of that certain niche saying that for broad audiences the game may look terrible, but there is nothing that makes the game unplayable or completely dull if you are into this game niche?

You mentioned Hyperdimension Neptunia as creating a fanbase, but all the games of that series still have a terrible reception among the reviewers. Yet, no one is saying that it is useless to defend the game from the critics. Let people who enjoy the game to enjoy the game without constantly implying that they may like the game, but there is no arguing the game is terrible and whoever enjoyed the game is wrong and have a bad taste.

It is not like some fans of a certain company where any criticism you make against it or its main games is followed with meltdowns, fingerpointing, personal insults, ad-hominen, straw man, drama and attempts to purge that member from the community. It is just some people who played the game and enjoyed it to a certain degree telling niche games fans that there are other views besides the metacritic-endorsed opinions so they might want to read them before taking the decision to give the game a go or not. It is not people trying to sabotage JRPGs in the west or disrupt the shrinking fanbase, leading to the extinction of the genre and the closure of companies that localize such games.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby kanade2 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:34 pm

Look, I am not against you having your opinions, but the way you word some of your sentences is not good. Like when you say that people are "proving someone's opinion as false". No one can prove people's opinions as false. Opinions are opinions and have the same value, whether they are with the majority or not.


Tell me sooner if you can't understand what I'm saying instead of giving me responses of " Because you said so, it is set on stone. No one can have the opinion that the criticism towards Time and Eternity was exaggerated. Let's close this entire forum section.".

And your point about JRPGs in the west is what? People are not allowed to enjoy a game anymore despite criticism from "official" reviews? People can't go to the subsection of the forums of that niche game's publisher to share their opinions with other fans of that certain niche saying that for broad audiences the game may look terrible, but there is nothing that makes the game unplayable or completely dull if you are into this game niche?


My point about niche JRPGs like HDN for example in the west was they won't be treated fairly until people start seeing things from both sides,and some middle ground is reached. Of course this is all pure speculation,and my opinion in the end.

I'm not saying anything about how people are not allowed to enjoy a game,or go to a subsection as what I was suggesting is for people to stop defending the game ,and maybe take some time to consider some of the opinions ideas of the reviewers,and see the bigger picture of why this game didn't do so well.People are still free to do what they want as I'm not going to force,or command them to do anything in the first place.

You mentioned Hyperdimension Neptunia as creating a fanbase, but all the games of that series still have a terrible reception among the reviewers. Yet, no one is saying that it is useless to defend the game from the critics. Let people who enjoy the game to enjoy the game without constantly implying that they may like the game, but there is no arguing the game is terrible and whoever enjoyed the game is wrong and have a bad taste.


The terrible reception among the reviewers doesn't matter in that case as the first HDN managed to create a fan base that is still growing,and the sales were beyond what NISA was expecting . On the other hand it doesn't seem T&E managed to pull that off anywhere.It's not like T&E lacked the potential,and ideas to pull off those things either.

It is not like some fans of a certain company where any criticism you make against it or its main games is followed with meltdowns, fingerpointing, personal insults, ad-hominen, straw man, drama and attempts to purge that member from the community. It is just some people who played the game and enjoyed it to a certain degree telling niche games fans that there are other views besides the metacritic-endorsed opinions so they might want to read them before taking the decision to give the game a go or not. It is not people trying to sabotage JRPGs in the west or disrupt the shrinking fanbase, leading to the extinction of the genre and the closure of companies that localize such games.


I don't think the method of telling people to ignore the reviewers,and give them another view is a bad thing,or trying to sabotage JRPGs ,but when it comes to solely T&E, I just don't see the results from it which is why I see as a pointless thing to do in the present . I'm aware my own opinions may not amount too much, or even will be accepted for that matter,but I'll still throw them out incase it leads to something that can be positive for T&E,or at least some of the concepts of the game.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby tilinelson2 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:04 am

kanade2 wrote:Tell me sooner if you can't understand what I'm saying instead of giving me responses of " Because you said so, it is set on stone. No one can have the opinion that the criticism towards Time and Eternity was exaggerated. Let's close this entire forum section.".


It is not a matter of understanding, it is a matter of you saying that it is useless to say that the reviewers were unfair, because it means that the whole thread is useless. If you didn't mean that, it is not my fault that you worded it wrong and I could not guess that you were saying something else until you added your comment afterwards.

My point about niche JRPGs like HDN for example in the west was they won't be treated fairly until people start seeing things from both sides,and some middle ground is reached. Of course this is all pure speculation,and my opinion in the end.

I'm not saying anything about how people are not allowed to enjoy a game,or go to a subsection as what I was suggesting is for people to stop defending the game ,and maybe take some time to consider some of the opinions ideas of the reviewers,and see the bigger picture of why this game didn't do so well.People are still free to do what they want as I'm not going to force,or command them to do anything in the first place.


The thing with the niche games is that outside the niche, few people are willing to give it a chance. Besides, there are two different kinds of niche: a niche with a small but faithful fanbase and a niche without a established fanbase. Both cases won't be "treated fairly", but the first will have some people ready to counter the mainstream reviewers that dismiss games like "another crap fanservicey loli rpg, lol", while the latter will not have this chance.

The terrible reception among the reviewers doesn't matter in that case as the first HDN managed to create a fan base that is still growing,and the sales were beyond what NISA was expecting . On the other hand it doesn't seem T&E managed to pull that off anywhere.It's not like T&E lacked the potential,and ideas to pull off those things either.


Hyperdimension Neptunia had a fanbase before it was launched because there was a big hype behind the concept of a game dealing with the game industry and the "console wars" (parody). As we can see by the amount of people in other forums that insist in posting every week in sales charts topics "Vita lol", "Wii U lol", "dat game_that_sold_well" and then argue against the same people all the time why Vita can be "saved" and Wii U not or why Wii U can be saved and Vita not, console wars is serious business. So, many people were driven to the parody concept initially, despite all the backlash.

Time and Eternity had not this advantage. Although some people were interested in the "playable anime" concept, it was dismissed quite quickly as the animations were not very rich (as it should be expected from a low-budget game). Besides, I don't think Time and Eternity was the kind of game to spawn a series. If the "playable-anime" was successful, they probably would use it in other games, as Time and Eternity story is self-contained and pretty much closed.

Even so, Time and Eternity sold out (LE and SE) in NISA store. I don't know if it means much, but maybe it was not that bad despite all the criticism.

I don't think the method of telling people to ignore the reviewers,and give them another view is a bad thing,or trying to sabotage JRPGs ,but when it comes to solely T&E, I just don't see the results from it which is why I see as a pointless thing to do in the present . I'm aware my own opinions may not amount too much, or even will be accepted for that matter,but I'll still throw them out incase it leads to something that can be positive for T&E,or at least some of the concepts of the game.


I don't think it is pointless. Our comments will not make Time and Eternity a big hit, nor erase the overall bad reputation. But they can, at least, inform fans of niche games that other niche game fans don't think it is terrible. I have managed to convince a few friends that enjoy niche JRPGS that the game is something to look forward, if not now with the flood of holiday releases, later when there is a drought or during a sale.

I have seen people who like niche JRPGs dismiss the game because reviews were negative, it had just an average rating in amazon.jp and it was nominated for "Kusoge game of the year" when many games from high profile series and regarded as good were nominated or even won that "award". The impressions of fans of the genre who actually played the game may erase the idea that the combat system is a trainwreck or that the plot of the game consists of 90% of perverted jokes, things that no one here agreed with. And if it allows a few people to try the game and enjoy it, it is not useless.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby Aikia » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:02 pm

bro, don't even bother "Discussing" with kanade2, he was born mad and every post I see is him crying.

Mad and bad come hand in hand.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby kanade2 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:55 pm

Aikia wrote:bro, don't even bother "Discussing" with kanade2, he was born mad and every post I see is him crying.

Mad and bad come hand in hand.


So what did I say,or do that upset you so badly that you feel the need to personally insult/troll me?

I'll point out that crying,and getting mad is quite normal for any gamer out there so it's not like I'm any different than anyone else here.

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Re: It's not that bad. (Spoilers)

Postby Aikia » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:58 am

When I see you post, this is what I view you as.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?espv=210&es ... =103&ty=12


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