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Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:19 pm
by TheDefenderOfEarth
Expanding on it...
Spoiler:
Chapter 2 was really unfair. I wanted to see if I could figure out who did it before the trial started, and having evidence submitted after the fact gave me no chance. I will admit Mondo saying "Dude" instead of "Chick" was way too subtle for me.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:41 pm
by ArmedDragoon
Seventh wrote:The game takes place in Japan, the characters are Japanese, all of this was localized as such, and so on and so forth. Why is "appropriate for the context of the game" not relevant? The region the game takes place in is Japan, so technically, they aren't speaking in a region appropriate way.

To that end, I'd say saying "saying 'thing I disagree with' makes you look weird" makes you look worse than the person saying the "thing" in question. :? Surely there was a better way to word that? :(


Please don't argue tone with me, Seventh. That is immensely irritating and irrelevant to the discussion. On the subject of context of the game, the characters are speaking English when they most certainly aren't actually speaking English, thus the characters adhere to English language conventions. Every game does this to at least some extent, even when it's as simple as turning "Surname-first" to "First-Surname" when ordering character names. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that this is accepted by many and that when a grievance comes up, it's strange.

TheDefenderOfEarth wrote:Back to the game itself, how many of the cases would you say were obvious before the trial started? Use spoiler tags as necessary.


Spoiler:
The ones for me were Leon and Celeste, yeah. Leon I can understand because tutorial case, but Celeste ended up having a terrible poker face when it mattered most.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:05 pm
by Seventh
ArmedDragoon wrote:Please don't argue tone with me, Seventh. That is immensely irritating and irrelevant to the discussion.

Dude, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Also? The tacked on insult was just as unnecessary and irrelevant to making your point, which was my point. I could turn around and say you're weird for thinking the way you do and things could potentially snowball, as it might depending on the users involved - I was saying you're better than that.

As for the rest of the post, I think the bigger issue people have isn't the first-last/last-first, but how characters randomly start calling each other by nicknames or first names, which is simply abnormal for the setting - not to mention not accurate as far as the original script goes.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:27 am
by ArmedDragoon
I meant it more as an objective observation on the complaint in the context of the situation than an insult, but fine. I'll concede that it wasn't neccessary.

What's so wrong with characters referring to each other with their first names when they didn't do so in the original script, though? What is lost in the translation?

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:05 pm
by Alice Twilight
ArmedDragoon wrote:All I'll say here is that saying "I sure find it a problem that people refer to each other by their first names in the localization just like how is appropriate for the region instead of the Japanese way!" makes you look incredibly weird. In a localization, the decision of changing currency is debatable. Following basic language conventions is not.


There's nothing weird about it. If a game is set in Japan I expect it to be culturally accurate. Breaks my immersion, and if you turn on the Japanese the characters are clearly heard saying names like "Naegi" or Asahina.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:26 am
by Ringwraith
People referring to last names and such has a culturally different meaning here than it does it in Japan.
Therefore the original 'meaning' can be easily lost if this is maintained without thought, as it will be interpreted in another way by the different audience.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:33 am
by blizdi
Ringwraith wrote:People referring to last names and such has a culturally different meaning here than it does it in Japan.
Therefore the original 'meaning' can be easily lost if this is maintained without thought, as it will be interpreted in another way by the different audience .


And don't even SAY it was "NISA pandering to a wider audience"


I don't call Michael Jackson "Jackson"

I don't call Robin Williams "Williams"

And neither does ANY western country. Which is why it's a "LOCAL"ization

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:04 am
by Ringwraith
Which is precisely my point, last-name basis alone is often more an informal thing for us than a formal one.
We have Mr/Ms for that.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:13 am
by blizdi
Ringwraith wrote:Which is precisely my point, last-name basis alone is often more an informal thing for us than a formal one.
We have Mr/Ms for that.


I agree!

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:27 am
by Seventh
Ringwraith wrote:People referring to last names and such has a culturally different meaning here than it does it in Japan.
Therefore the original 'meaning' can be easily lost if this is maintained without thought, as it will be interpreted in another way by the different audience.

The game doesn't take place here, though. One could argue the meaning is already lost by the change, which is pretty thoughtless as it is by having every character refer to every other character by their first name out of nowhere. Plus, as has been pointed out on more than one occasion, the Persona series doesn't get any backlash for doing it - nothing that's stopped it from becoming a hit, at least.

blizdi wrote:I don't call Michael Jackson "Jackson"

I don't call Robin Williams "Williams"

That's... not really a good example. You would call them "Mr. Jackson" or "Mr. Williams" if you had any tact, after all. You might call MJ "Michael" due to his status as a celebrity, but there's equivalents of that in Japan too ("Shoko-tan" for example).

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:32 am
by Ringwraith
Seventh wrote:
Ringwraith wrote:People referring to last names and such has a culturally different meaning here than it does it in Japan.
Therefore the original 'meaning' can be easily lost if this is maintained without thought, as it will be interpreted in another way by the different audience.

The game doesn't take place here, though. One could argue the meaning is already lost by the change, which is pretty thoughtless as it is by having every character refer to every other character by their first name out of nowhere. Plus, as has been pointed out on more than one occasion, the Persona series doesn't get any backlash for doing it - nothing that's stopped it from becoming a hit, at least.

Except in the Persona games many of the characters don't refer to each other by last name when I'm fairly sure they do in the original Japanese.
It's often used more for pointing out a quirk of a particular character, like Mitsuru only refers to couple of characters by their first name.
Seventh wrote:
blizdi wrote:I don't call Michael Jackson "Jackson"

I don't call Robin Williams "Williams"

That's... not really a good example. You would call them "Mr. Jackson" or "Mr. Williams" if you had any tact, after all. You might call MJ "Michael" due to his status as a celebrity, but there's equivalents of that in Japan too ("Shoko-tan" for example).

Which is immediately why I followed up with mentioning that, but even so, that doesn't translate awfully directly in many cases, as the usage is different.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:37 am
by Seventh
I'm aware - but they do use at least somewhat appropriate alternatives, and there are still a few characters that don't. That's a far cry from instant first name basis and cutesy nicknames that DR chose.

Why is a story being told in a foreign place keeping some of that intact so terrible? It just strikes me as xenophobic and a willingness to be ignorant - and I'd say the same of a Western game getting "fixed" for Eastern gamers, so we're clear.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:42 am
by Ringwraith
Though arguably, the place doesn't matter so much?
Maybe?
Aren't these in essentially closed-off-from-the-world locations? For practical purposes they could be anywhere.

Almost like the case of the Ace Attorney games where they were quite culturally neutral to begin with so they rather simply they shifted the place... and thenit backfired when the Japanese influence suddenly did matter but by then they were already too committed. Hence increasingly absurd situations.

Just throwing ideas out there really, as I've not played the games so don't know the precise context, just outlining possible other sides of the argument.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:47 am
by Seventh
If the place doesn't matter, what's wrong with keeping it as it is? It just creates more work to "fix" it, and for something that doesn't matter, that's unnecessary then, isn't it? In any case, they aren't "anywhere."

The AA games' localizations really shouldn't be used as an example of anything "right" being done, at least when this subject is the one being discussed. Though the AA games, keep in mind, weren't localized with Japanese characters kept being Japanese and the setting wasn't kept as such either, as was the case here.

Re: Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc (Vita) ♥ Available Now!

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:04 am
by Ringwraith
I'll stand by names not being overly important most of the time though.