*SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

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Total votes: 21

iatheia
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby iatheia » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:31 pm

She could, yeah. But
Sorry, no school mode spoilers. This is for chapter 3 only

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:43 pm

Given the reveal here in 3, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if every word uttered from her throughout the entire game was a lie. Right from the start.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Alice Twilight » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:59 pm

What if Celes and Yamada were good friends back then? Maybe because Yamada reminded her of someone she knew she formed a friendship with him or perhaps some respect atleast.

Didn't check to see if you were all discussing this, sorry.
Last edited by Alice Twilight on Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:01 pm

I think it's more likely he reminded her of someone she saw beneath her (the teashop guy) and in her arrogance just treated him like a servant.

He went with it because.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Zagryzaec » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:11 am

she didn't actually know the rules of how to play, so she couldn't have strategized it.

Then there is no way to win it against someone who have experience and know what he is doing. There are only two possibilities - either she lies about winning in shogi, or she lies about not knowing the rules. As she is Japanese strategist - I bet it is second. Her love for Othello is prove, that she enjoys strategic games, and shogi is Japanese chess - how she could miss them? It is like gamer who missed most popular game in his most favorite genre.
Plus "underground" gambling isn't exactly specific - was she just betting on illegal games, like crack baby basketball?

It is most likely usual poker, mahjong, shogi, blackjack, roulette and other. In every one of them winning ultimately determined by calculation, and strategy. And ability to deceive the opponent of course. I would believe that she played underground because she was desperate enough to kill for money to get her dream and underground gambling is a faster way to make money. And we know, that she really was a famous gambler, not just lier.
he was falling for her before this chapter. Another piece of how Spike Chunsoft likes throwing out clues to the next case way too early. Similar to how they started making a big deal about the pool and the cards in Chapter 2, which made it obvious those were going to be a big part of the case, and made it obvious Chihiro's gender was going to be a key point as well.
And why is that? Maybe because from the very beginning of the game she start making preparations for her strategy such as making scapegoat and telling everyone that she actually want to adapt and live there? Or was it not strategic actions to prepare required situation but a blind luck?
You quite underestimate luck. I don't think this is going to go anywhere though, as you don't seem like you'll budge on this.
Ypu are incorrect. I will not stick to the wrong position just because I stated it in the first place, but my position is not random, neither it is made on intuition or luck. Give me decisive proof and I will change my position : )
I don't believe she won entirely on "luck", but that would make what happened easier to swallow.
Then tell me how exactly you imagine luck can give someone who doesn`t know rules of shogi a way to win someone proficient in it. seriously - what element you consider is based on luck in shogi?
Also, execution of a plan is just as important, and Murder is really no different than any other strategy game.
If you do not see the difference allow me to show you. In chess to take piece you just have practically unlimited amount of time to just take a wooden figurine about several gram and remove it from board. even if you drop it in the process - it is not change anything. In her case she tried to kill a big man with a hammer. She done the step but it didn`t work as it was supposed to, and how it will work in any strategy game. Piece which must be off-board suddenly appears on the board and obviously mess up all the strategy. Without the real name of Celeste which was given by the hifumi there is no decisive evidence in her notebook and she goes beyond reach - her plan is success. It was not an error in strategy - it was not luck - she just never killed someone by herself, and always dealt with the games where such errors just do no exist. So this error is totally normal. If she was ever have to kill someone in outer world - she would never do it herself as strategist - to not get into situation like Sayaka. She would use pieces like hifumi.

Or let us look on another "error in her strategy" - costume and the blueprints. Do anyone really think that she could imagine, that when she tells hifumi to make costume totally covering the face and put blueprints into hiro`s room he would create THIS and leave his writing on the blueprints? Both of this errors are not her errors. And it was too late to change plans when she saw where it is going. If it was done correct as she planned - debate would end up with Hiro as a blackened. Her plan wasn`t bad at all - as a matter of fact - it was almost perfect. But it was not done as it was planned.

In other words it is a perfect example how a perfect strategy is ruined by bad realization and is the only way how ultimate gambler could at all fail his almost direct specialty in winning the game. Difference between board/table and real life.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby vampko » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:37 am

Zagryzaec wrote:ostume and the blueprints. Do anyone really think that she could imagine, that when she tells hifumi to make costume totally covering the face and put blueprints into hiro`s room he would create THIS and leave his writing on the blueprints?

Uhhh....yeah

Blueprints it's pretty standard to have notes and writing. Also, considering the type of person Yamada was, it definitely would not be all that strange for him to make something over the top. Nay, it would be expected. And he was VERY open about what kind of person he was.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:41 am

Wasn't it explicitly said/implied Celeste didn't know what kind of costume he was making until it was already done? I seem to remember something along these lines going on.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby vampko » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:21 am

Seventh wrote:Wasn't it explicitly said/implied Celeste didn't know what kind of costume he was making until it was already done? I seem to remember something along these lines going on.

yeah, but what does that prove? My point is that if she was so strategic and actually good at gambling, then it'd be easy to assume that he would make something really over the top.
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[06:46:27] <Solice> you're like dealing with a bag of rabid cats
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:27 am

You forget that she's also arrogant and incredibly self absorbed. The idea that he might do something other than exactly what she wanted probably never occurred to her. Narcissists are like that.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Zagryzaec » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:42 am

yeah, but what does that prove? My point is that if she was so strategic and actually good at gambling, then it'd be easy to assume that he would make something really over the top.

And she did. She persuaded someone to kill in situation in which no one would kill, she created a plan which practically do not involve her in dangerous stuff until the very end, she covered her murder with another one. And overall - if her plan would go as it should - she would go away with it. I agree that she knew what type of person Hifumi was, but first - she could expect hifumi at minimum level to understand what he was doing and in this case do not use his trademark and signature (for her it would be obvious) or second - she could plan to frame him as a b plan if Hiro failed. She could say that Hiro and Hifumi worked together and how would you rebut this? This is actual question by the way.

And about over the top - good strategy is not something with most moves - good strategy is something with the least moves to achieve goal.
Last edited by Zagryzaec on Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:54 am

I find it odd that you guys seem to think Celeste should have expected Hifumi not to use his signature.

First off, as I said, Celeste is incredibly self-absorbed. It's very in character of her to not consider the actions of others beyond how they'll benefit her.

Second, they were committing murder and not getting away with it meant death. Even if Celeste hadn't been planning on betraying Hifumi, it's common sense for anyone trying to get away with anything to not leave evidence that would tie to them. To that end, even with Hifumi being how he is, it would be really out there to even consider someone would use a costume, something their plan hinged on, that would point directly to the accomplice.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Zagryzaec » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:07 pm

The point is to point to the accomplice not her although it could be an ajustment for original plan when she saw the costume. Originally she would expect more classic disguise even from Hifumi but when plan go to motion it would be hard to stop. Costume does not shows that his accomplice is Celeste. It is logical to assume that Hiro and Hifumi had a plan to kill Taka where Hiro is the killer and Hifumi is accomplice who makes costume and cover and get an alter ego(because he could not do this himself due to face recognition) for this (and punish taka as a rival) and Hiro becomes blackened and graduate. This means death for hifumi but his motive - love makes it acceptable. Situation with hiro also may be presented, that after killing taka he kills his accomplice to cut the loose ends and then tries to remove costume, but cannot because he was unaware of the costume lock so he tries to hide himself to try and remove costume later but found before it. Planning of murder took place in the hiro`s room and that is the reason why blueprints were found there. What evidence do we have to disprove this scenario in nonstop debate?

Seventh did you mean "Celeste should have expected Hifumi to use his signature "

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Alice Twilight » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:22 am

I noticed they keep mentioning Alter-Ego during Celes' class trial. Wether this was intentional or not they were being really indiscreet about keeping the laptop a secret from Monokuma.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:46 am

Alice Twilight wrote:I noticed they keep mentioning Alter-Ego during Celes' class trial. Wether this was intentional or not they were being really indiscreet about keeping the laptop a secret from Monokuma.

It's odd. I think they mention it only once or twice by name, but they do keep referring to this "thing" that Monokuma doesn't know about.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 3 Discussion

Postby vampko » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:28 am

I find it more odd that Monokuma didn't even place any sound surveillance on the baths at the least.
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[06:46:27] <Solice> you're like dealing with a bag of rabid cats
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