*SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

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Rating out of 5 on this Chapter:

5 out of 5 - Excellent
12
67%
4 out of 5 - Good
6
33%
3 out of 5 - Alright
0
No votes
2 out of 5 - Bad
0
No votes
1 out of 5 - Terrible
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 18

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:18 pm

I thoroughly enjoyed this chapter, and I had already been regretting not spending more time with Sakura, so this really sealed the deal for me on her. When I first saw her I thought she would be another goofy archetype like Hifumi but she really was something special.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby bldudas » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:17 am

Sakura. :(

This chapter made me sad. I wish I spent more time with her. Also, Monokuma is horrible for taking the note Sakura left for Hina and replacing it with something he wrote.

And Alter Ego:(
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby edgy404 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:42 pm

I think this chapter made me grew on Byakuya's English voice. I grew fonder when he fell apart and could barely keep his composure. He is a douche that you can't bring yourself to fully hate. :lol:
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby shymel94 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:17 pm

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
I actually did cry towards the end of the trial section. Sakura is my favorite character because of this chapter.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby lopez » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:31 am

This chapter was way better than the ones before it. I was actually initially suspecting Hina when she immediately ran away to "get the others", especially when her and Sakura were such bros.

Not only was the case better, but the underlying message about trust and friendship really hit home. Sakura didn't lash out at both Hiro and Toko when they attacked her, which really showed how much her betrayal had effected most people and herself.

Sakura was one of my favorite characters, so it was sad to see her go, but I was suspecting a suicide when she initially stated something like "I need to end this." Her suicide was the only thing she could do :(
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby vampko » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:49 am

I haven't finished the chapter yet (ghaven't even gotten to the first free time), but I just need to get this off my chest
MAKOTO IS RETARDED RETARDED RETARDED RETARDED RETARDED RETARDED RETARDED RETARDED RETARDED RETARDED

I seriously cannot stand him. I'll be more involved once I've actually beaten the chapter. I just had to say that. Because it is just....
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:56 am

... Uh huh.

I'll assume you'll have an explanation for this when you come back after you've finished the chapter...?
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Mirai » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:02 pm

I'm guessing its the event where Naegi was a hypocrite and pissed off Kirigiri.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:07 pm

Mirai wrote:I'm guessing its the event where Naegi was a hypocrite and pissed off Kirigiri.

You mean the part where he did the right thing and acted perfectly in character while Kyoko overreacted and threw a temper tantrum?
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby vampko » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:18 pm

Mirai wrote:I'm guessing its the event where Naegi was a hypocrite and pissed off Kirigiri.

Bingo!

Though, to be honest, there are countless moments throughout the game so far where makoto is an idiot.

Seventh wrote:
Mirai wrote:I'm guessing its the event where Naegi was a hypocrite and pissed off Kirigiri.

You mean the part where he did the right thing and acted perfectly in character while Kyoko overreacted and threw a temper tantrum?

I don't think she overreacted at all. And...yeah, it's in-character for an idiot.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Mirai » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:23 pm

Seventh wrote:
Mirai wrote:I'm guessing its the event where Naegi was a hypocrite and pissed off Kirigiri.

You mean the part where he did the right thing and acted perfectly in character while Kyoko overreacted and threw a temper tantrum?


I would say it leans both ways because no matter what way you look at it, Naegi was a hypocrite, as he asks Kirigiri to trust him at the end of Chapter 3 in which she does and tells him about the hidden room and then when Kirigiri asks him what's wrong after seeing Sakura and Monokuma fight he doesn't tell her about it. This angers Kirigiri to the point she refuses to talk with Naegi until Monokuma reveals Sakura is the mole. In Naegi's defense he didn't know for sure weather Sakura was the mole or not and considering his optimistic personality and to prevent any discord he decides to keep quiet about it.

So personally I would say both are at fault, Naegi was a hypocrite and Kirigiri shouldn't of reacted so negatively about it although she herself does apologise to Naegi later.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:32 pm

Makoto had just witnessed them fighting, meaning there was conflict there. Even if he hadn't seen that, he wasn't sure what he had seen. He hadn't had a chance to get Sakura's side, and then it blew up before he could do much of anything about it. He didn't want to not trust Sakura, he wanted to at least give her a chance to explain before he tattled to Kyoko, which is very in character for him.

The point here is that he didn't jump to conclusions and, had Monokuma not ratted Sakura out, he would have likely talked to her and been able to go from there. Him no having a chance to do something doesn't make him an idiot (and really, if you're this far in and have gotten through the trials and think that, then there's something wrong), it makes Monokuma a step ahead.

From here? He proceeds to try to make peace and move forward and not jump to more conclusions and overall do things that, you know, people do when their lives are on the line.

Kyoko, supposedly the smart one here, basically has her equivalent of a hissy fit and gives him the silent treatment when they could be working together and being productive, which probably directly helped lead to how things wound up.

How anyone can possibly call him an idiot or hypocrite for this fucking baffles me. If anyone got the idiot ball this chapter, it was Kyoko.

EDIT: Didn't see you there Mirai!

There's nothing hypocritical in his actions. Yes, he wants Kyoko to trust him. She does, that's great. But trust is a two way street - she chose not to trust that he might not have a valid reason for NOT telling her. She assumed and jumped to conclusions. The things you say as "in his defense" are the exact reasons why he ISN'T a hypocrite. He wanted the trust of more than just Kyoko, and he didn't want to run to Kyoko with unfounded claims. He wanted to have all his eggs in his basket and not screw up, because here, screwing up means potentially good and innocent people die.

He trusted Sakura too. He wanted to believe in Sakura. Unless you want to take a really single minded approach that he should disregard all the other students and prioritize Kyoko (which would be terribly out of character for him), what he did made perfect sense and was, in fact, the right thing to do.

We're looking from the persoective that he kept quiet and Monokuma spilled the beans first... Which was out of his control. Had Monokuma not interfered, chances are things would have transpired very differently.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Mirai » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:31 pm

Seventh wrote:EDIT: Didn't see you there Mirai!

There's nothing hypocritical in his actions. Yes, he wants Kyoko to trust him. She does, that's great. But trust is a two way street - she chose not to trust that he might not have a valid reason for NOT telling her. She assumed and jumped to conclusions. The things you say as "in his defense" are the exact reasons why he ISN'T a hypocrite. He wanted the trust of more than just Kyoko, and he didn't want to run to Kyoko with unfounded claims. He wanted to have all his eggs in his basket and not screw up, because here, screwing up means potentially good and innocent people die.

He trusted Sakura too. He wanted to believe in Sakura. Unless you want to take a really single minded approach that he should disregard all the other students and prioritize Kyoko (which would be terribly out of character for him), what he did made perfect sense and was, in fact, the right thing to do.

We're looking from the persoective that he kept quiet and Monokuma spilled the beans first... Which was out of his control. Had Monokuma not interfered, chances are things would have transpired very differently.

Just as you said, trust is a two-way street, just like with Kirigiri, Naegi chose not to trust her either and keep it to himself and as I said that's because he wasn't certain weather Sakura was the mole or not and he wanted to trust in Sakura, which fits in with his character. His actions were still hypocritical because if he really trusted her, then he would of told her, because truth is Kirigiri would of kept quiet about it, if he told her.

It didn't really help in how he phased his words to her either saying; "I can't tell you, I'm sorry." Instead he should of said something more like "I can't say it here, I'll talk about it later tonight." or "I'm not sure of something and until I can confirm it, I would rather not say something which may not be true." Anyway to me they were both in the wrong, if Naegi had trusted her completely then he would of told her and asked her for advice and with Kirigiri she got too angry with him, however they both come to an understanding after Monokuma reveals Sakura was the mole and both apologise for their actions which even further shows both were of them were in the wrong. (Naegi's actions was more understandable however).
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Seventh » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:49 pm

It can't be in character and hypocritical of him. He could have worded it better, certainly, but he had very valid reasons for not saying anything and that is something Kyoko herself agrees with once she knows the facts. She herself found it "just like him" or whatever her wording was, once all was said and done - but because she did what she did, things happened that just possibly could have been prevented.

You say "he chose not to trust her," but that's a very black and white way to look at it. When she trusted him, her information had foundation and evidence. He had nothing, and a mostly baseless claim like that could have potentially done more harm than good. Even if he did trust her, Kyoko still was unpredictable at this point. Furthermore, "if he really trusted her, he would have told her" doesn't fly... because it completely disregards any trust he might have/want to have in Sakura, which was largely why he DIDN'T tell her, and this is also something Kyoko herself agrees with. That goes right back to how I was saying it would be very out of character of him to prioritize Kyoko's trust above the trust of others as well as evidence and reason, which is exactly what he would have done in just telling her.

The only wrong thing Makoto did was have bad timing. If he had gotten to Sakura and then gotten to Kyoko before Monokuma had blabbed (and he was doing his best to do just this - he had no way to expect Monokuma's actions), his actions would be considered right. His "mistake" was entirely out of control - Kyoko, however, should have known better.

Further, when Monokuma revealed the truth, Kyoko didn't just up and admit she screwed up. Makoto repeatedly tried to fix things, but Kyoko in turn blows him off every time. She puts her hurt feelings above logic, and actually becomes a hypocrite herself here. Had she let Makoto explain himself sooner, no one may have needed to die as, together, the two of them could have tried to take action.

Though this is fine. It shows Kyoko is human too. She has feelings and she can be hurt.

But it doesn't make Makoto a hypocrite or an idiot just for hurting her feelings doing the right thing.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa Chapter 4 Discussion

Postby Mirai » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:17 pm

Seventh wrote:It can't be in character and hypocritical of him. He could have worded it better, certainly, but he had very valid reasons for not saying anything and that is something Kyoko herself agrees with once she knows the facts. She herself found it "just like him" or whatever her wording was, once all was said and done - but because she did what she did, things happened that just possibly could have been prevented.

You say "he chose not to trust her," but that's a very black and white way to look at it. When she trusted him, her information had foundation and evidence. He had nothing, and a mostly baseless claim like that could have potentially done more harm than good. Even if he did trust her, Kyoko still was unpredictable at this point. Furthermore, "if he really trusted her, he would have told her" doesn't fly... because it completely disregards any trust he might have/want to have in Sakura, which was largely why he DIDN'T tell her, and this is also something Kyoko herself agrees with. That goes right back to how I was saying it would be very out of character of him to prioritize Kyoko's trust above the trust of others as well as evidence and reason, which is exactly what he would have done in just telling her.

The only wrong thing Makoto did was have bad timing. If he had gotten to Sakura and then gotten to Kyoko before Monokuma had blabbed (and he was doing his best to do just this - he had no way to expect Monokuma's actions), his actions would be considered right. His "mistake" was entirely out of control - Kyoko, however, should have known better.

Further, when Monokuma revealed the truth, Kyoko didn't just up and admit she screwed up. Makoto repeatedly tried to fix things, but Kyoko in turn blows him off every time. She puts her hurt feelings above logic, and actually becomes a hypocrite herself here. Had she let Makoto explain himself sooner, no one may have needed to die as, together, the two of them could have tried to take action.

Though this is fine. It shows Kyoko is human too. She has feelings and she can be hurt.

But it doesn't make Makoto a hypocrite or an idiot just for hurting her feelings doing the right thing.


The thing is Naegi put himself in a predicament because he either had to go against his optimism and put his full trust on Kirigiri or he had to go against this trust and contradict himself to prevent any doubt/discord. Either way he was going to be in the wrong in some way or another and in your case he chose the better option.

If we take things from Kirigiri's point of view, after all these days she has spent in the academy, she had found someone who she believed she could generally trust after seeing how much Naegi cared about her well-being. So she tells him some info she had found out recently. After seeing Sakura face-off with Monokuma, Kirigiri could tell that Naegi was concerned about something so in return she asks what he's worried about and he simply states 'I can't tell you' without explaining further. To Kirigiri this felt like betrayal to her and unfortunately this triggered a button that brought her feelings into this and stopped her thinking rationally like she would normally. Kirigiri's anger may have gone too far but that in itself shows that she was opening up to him like he asked her to. So if you think about it this way Kirigiri wouldn't of ever acted this way to Naegi if he hadn't shown so much concern for her.

To be truthful I do think Naegi made the better decision of keeping it quiet even if that did mean to betray her trust because if he had some more time he hopefully would of been able to explain the situation to Kirigiri to bring back her faith in him. It still doesn't change his decision he made was a hypocritical one which is where I go back to my opinion of them both being in the wrong. In fact I wouldn't say either of them are completely in the wrong and they both are to blame for this and their reconcile scene they have makes me believe this to be the case even further.

Just to clarify, I would never call Naegi an idiot as he most certainly isn't, naïve-definitely but he's by no means an idiot. The class trials alone are enough proof of this.
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