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*SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:38 pm
by Mirai
With the official annoucement of Dangan Ronpa 2 it would be best to keep the main thread spoiler free so anyone who wants to discuss anything to do with story events of the game should do so here.

Discussion here should be kept to Dangan Ronpa 2 events only.

As this is a general thread for spoilers, you should put spoiler tags for any story event you are going to discuss weather its from Chapter 1 or Chapter 3.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:40 pm
by Mirai
Alice Twilight wrote:'((SUPER DANGAN RONPA 2 SPOILERS HOLY SHIT, DON'T READ THESE SPOILERS YOU'RE GOING TO GET SPOILED DAMN, SPOIL THAT SPOILER POSTING HERE BECAUSE IT'S LINKED TO CHAPTER 6, BUT ALSO RELATES TO SDR2 SO DO WE MAKE A POST CHAPTER 6 PRE ZUTSUBOU GIRLS PRE SDR2 SPOILERS THREAD?))

Spoiler:
SDR2 cast had to pick up what's left of Junko, all that mess, all those pieces of cracked skull, bits of...everything spread around the crusher, some intestines and bits of skin are probably still clinging to the underside of that crusher just dangling there.


SDR2 MAJOR SPOILER!!!

Spoiler:
And for me this is a plot hole because from what was seen, Junko was completly crushed in her execution which would of left her entire body into a bloody mess. Then when you see Nagito with Junko's hand there doens't seem to be any marks on her hand at all, which is not possible if her whole body was crushed. Even the wikia says:
■It is unknown how her body managed to stay intact for Ultimate Despair to retrieve and cut up after it was crushed during her execution.
This can only mean one of three things:
1. This is a plothole therefore a mistake on Spike Chunsoft's part.
2. Junko was crushed and killed in her execution but the body parts come from a different body (Mukuro)
3. Junko was never killed in her execution and either died another way or is still alive.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:04 pm
by Avebone
As I have said in another thread, I enjoyed SDR2 a lot more than I enjoyed 1. The story, the gameplay, the characters, the everything, I just enjoyed it all more than I did in 1. Except I prefer Naegi over Hinata, I could just relate to Naegi easier than Hinata. Nanami, Ibuki, and Komaeda being my favorite characters in this one.

and as for my favorite and least favorite chapters/trials in this one...and do not read this spoiler unless you have beaten the game.

Spoiler:
My favorite trial/chapter, and this goes for both games is the 5th trial. I loved that trial even though Nanami ended up being the culprit in that one. The way Komaeda set it up was excellent, and even though I am upset that it ended up killing nanami, I don't blame Komaeda for it. Seeing as how he was actually trying to save her not kill her in the first place, even though he didn't know it was her. The only problem I have with it is the fact that Nanami turns out to be an AI really lessens the blow that she gave herself up in that trial for them. She wasn't going to get out of the game anyways, so her sacrificing herself doesn't seem as big of a deal. still not a huge problem or anything but just a little peeve of mine for this.

As for least favorite trial/chapter is the 3rd one. I felt the culprit was way too obvious, the motive ridiculous, the execution was my least favorite, and she killed my Ibuki ;-;.

As for the twists in this one did not see them coming at all. One thing I will say though that I personally didn't like was how they didn't actually die just turn brain dead and then hinted at that they will find a way to bring them back. I dislike when stories build up characters have them die, and then have them come back. So, and this might make me sound like a monster, but I hope the characters stay dead.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:44 pm
by Mirai
Avebone wrote:As I have said in another thread, I enjoyed SDR2 a lot more than I enjoyed 1. The story, the gameplay, the characters, the everything, I just enjoyed it all more than I did in 1. Except I prefer Naegi over Hinata, I could just relate to Naegi easier than Hinata. Nanami, Ibuki, and Komaeda being my favorite characters in this one.

and as for my favorite and least favorite chapters/trials in this one...and do not read this spoiler unless you have beaten the game.

Spoiler:
My favorite trial/chapter, and this goes for both games is the 5th trial. I loved that trial even though Nanami ended up being the culprit in that one. The way Komaeda set it up was excellent, and even though I am upset that it ended up killing nanami, I don't blame Komaeda for it. Seeing as how he was actually trying to save her not kill her in the first place, even though he didn't know it was her. The only problem I have with it is the fact that Nanami turns out to be an AI really lessens the blow that she gave herself up in that trial for them. She wasn't going to get out of the game anyways, so her sacrificing herself doesn't seem as big of a deal. still not a huge problem or anything but just a little peeve of mine for this.

As for least favorite trial/chapter is the 3rd one. I felt the culprit was way too obvious, the motive ridiculous, the execution was my least favorite, and she killed my Ibuki ;-;.

As for the twists in this one did not see them coming at all. One thing I will say though that I personally didn't like was how they didn't actually die just turn brain dead and then hinted at that they will find a way to bring them back. I dislike when stories build up characters have them die, and then have them come back. So, and this might make me sound like a monster, but I hope the characters stay dead.


I didn't prefer everything in SDR2 compared to DR1 but I definitely enjoyed the characters and how trials were done in SDR2 over DR1. Tsumiki being my favourite character and Kuzuryuu being my least favourite.

SDR2 Major Spoilers
Spoiler:
I completely agree with you on the 5th case it was so perfectly executed and was mind-blowing especially with Nanami being the culprit by accident and I understand Komaeda's POV on this case. I was pretty upset when Nanami was executed but when it was revealed she was an AI as you said it lessens the impact the 5th trial gave when she chooses to sacrifice herself as she can't get out of the New World Program anyway. Personally I would of prefered it if only Usami was an AI and Nanami was a member of FF who went in with the other characters to observe them.

To be fair with the 3rd case's motive you can't blame Tsumiki personally for this as any other character would of done the same thing in her position as she went back to her SHSL Despair self. I believe Tsumiki was chosen because before this incident she seems like one of the kinder people among the cast despite some issues she may have and then she changes considerably as SHSL Despair it just makes me wonder what the other cast members were like as SHSL Despair.

The twists were generally better than DR1's ones and again I agree on this as well and I'm not trying to sound harsh or cruel or anything and don't get me wrong I really liked a lot of these characters but as much as I like them I would prefer it if they stayed dead as well. As them coming back to life would for me ruin the development the survivors obtained from their deaths. The only exeception for me would be Junko returning again as she's the main antagonist of the series.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:01 pm
by piddlesworth
Mirai wrote:
Avebone wrote:As I have said in another thread, I enjoyed SDR2 a lot more than I enjoyed 1. The story, the gameplay, the characters, the everything, I just enjoyed it all more than I did in 1. Except I prefer Naegi over Hinata, I could just relate to Naegi easier than Hinata. Nanami, Ibuki, and Komaeda being my favorite characters in this one.

and as for my favorite and least favorite chapters/trials in this one...and do not read this spoiler unless you have beaten the game.

Spoiler:
My favorite trial/chapter, and this goes for both games is the 5th trial. I loved that trial even though Nanami ended up being the culprit in that one. The way Komaeda set it up was excellent, and even though I am upset that it ended up killing nanami, I don't blame Komaeda for it. Seeing as how he was actually trying to save her not kill her in the first place, even though he didn't know it was her. The only problem I have with it is the fact that Nanami turns out to be an AI really lessens the blow that she gave herself up in that trial for them. She wasn't going to get out of the game anyways, so her sacrificing herself doesn't seem as big of a deal. still not a huge problem or anything but just a little peeve of mine for this.

As for least favorite trial/chapter is the 3rd one. I felt the culprit was way too obvious, the motive ridiculous, the execution was my least favorite, and she killed my Ibuki ;-;.

As for the twists in this one did not see them coming at all. One thing I will say though that I personally didn't like was how they didn't actually die just turn brain dead and then hinted at that they will find a way to bring them back. I dislike when stories build up characters have them die, and then have them come back. So, and this might make me sound like a monster, but I hope the characters stay dead.


I didn't prefer everything in SDR2 compared to DR1 but I definitely enjoyed the characters and how trials were done in SDR2 over DR1. Tsumiki being my favourite character and Kuzuryuu being my least favourite.

SDR2 Major Spoilers
Spoiler:
I completely agree with you on the 5th case it was so perfectly executed and was mind-blowing especially with Nanami being the culprit by accident and I understand Komaeda's POV on this case. I was pretty upset when Nanami was executed but when it was revealed she was an AI as you said it lessens the impact the 5th trial gave when she chooses to sacrifice herself as she can't get out of the New World Program anyway. Personally I would of prefered it if only Usami was an AI and Nanami was a member of FF who went in with the other characters to observe them.

To be fair with the 3rd case's motive you can't blame Tsumiki personally for this as any other character would of done the same thing in her position as she went back to her SHSL Despair self. I believe Tsumiki was chosen because before this incident she seems like one of the kinder people among the cast despite some issues she may have and then she changes considerably as SHSL Despair it just makes me wonder what the other cast members were like as SHSL Despair.

The twists were generally better than DR1's ones and again I agree on this as well and I'm not trying to sound harsh or cruel or anything and don't get me wrong I really liked a lot of these characters but as much as I like them I would prefer it if they stayed dead as well. As them coming back to life would for me ruin the development the survivors obtained from their deaths. The only exeception for me would be Junko returning again as she's the main antagonist of the series.


MAJOR SPOILERS

Spoiler:
Regarding whether or not they should stay dead... well, I agree and disagree. I agree that "oh, they're just comatose, they might get better" is kind of bullshit, but since this angle was introduced it would be a bit underwhelming if they didn't recover, since the fact that this miracle can happen is treated as a positive outcome and it wouldn't really make sense from a narrative perspective to include something like that without capitalizing on it, especially given the themes of the story.

So, I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't like that angle either, but since it does exist it would be disappointing if they didn't wake up, and I'd overall prefer it if it wasn't introduced at all. Still, it was kept ambiguous and just left as a "small chance" rather than a certainty, so it might just be left as a question mark rather than a true answer.


Anyway, my favorite people are (in no particular order) Tanaka, Komaeda, and Saionji.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:15 pm
by Avebone
Mirai wrote:
Spoiler:
Personally I would of prefered it if only Usami was an AI and Nanami was a member of FF who went in with the other characters to observe them.


Yeah I agree with you there.

More Major Spoilers
Spoiler:
That is how I thought it was originally and then was kind of disappointed that she turned out to be an AI. Not because I dislike the whole AI aspect or anything, nor do I hate AI characters. Just solely for the fact that it lessened the blow of the 5th trial. I don't even mind that she was Hinata's main "love" interest. I think that is an interesting thing actually being the love interest but also an AI who is bound to the game they are in. I just wish if they were going with that approach they wouldn't have made her the one to sacrifice herself in the 5th trial is all.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:06 am
by piddlesworth
Avebone wrote:
Mirai wrote:
Spoiler:
Personally I would of prefered it if only Usami was an AI and Nanami was a member of FF who went in with the other characters to observe them.


Yeah I agree with you there.

More Major Spoilers
Spoiler:
That is how I thought it was originally and then was kind of disappointed that she turned out to be an AI. Not because I dislike the whole AI aspect or anything, nor do I hate AI characters. Just solely for the fact that it lessened the blow of the 5th trial. I don't even mind that she was Hinata's main "love" interest. I think that is an interesting thing actually being the love interest but also an AI who is bound to the game they are in. I just wish if they were going with that approach they wouldn't have made her the one to sacrifice herself in the 5th trial is all.

Whoa whoa whoa WHOA. Hold up.

(major spoilers, which should be inferrable by now but whatever)
Spoiler:
...Love interest? I'm sorry, but... what? Sure, she had some minor ship tease-y moments with Hinata here and there, but it kind of balanced out into something that seemed pretty platonic by chapter 4, and her freetimes state that she doesn't really understand romance--though, admittedly, she does want to learn. Sure, they had an important relationship, but an important male-female relationship... doesn't necessarily mean it's romantic, and I honestly think that interpreting her relationship with Hinata as romantic kind of kills the point of her character since she's basically computer Jesus. Not to mention he denies it pretty flat-out when Souda accuses him of having feelings for Nanami, and not even a particularly tsundere way. If anyone's the "love interest," and I use this term extremely loosely since there isn't one, really, it'd actually be Komaeda, which is kind of weird because he's a dude but that doesn't really automatically invalidate anything. This is getting a bit long-winded as is and I don't want this to devolve into a shipping war (though I ship the OT3 so I'm in the clear either way), but I'll sum it up by saying that the feelings are pretty undeniable on Komaeda's side and there's a certain personal element Hinata has with him that he doesn't with Nanami, not to mention he plays the role of Sayaka in the first chapter...

Though, in defense of Nanami being an AI overall, I didn't really feel it devalued her sacrifice any more than Alter Ego's was devalued in the first game by virtue of him being an AI. She pretty clearly represents the themes of the game, and her death was shocking more due to the despair-inducing trial that led to it and the fact that her sacrifice ended up moving everyone forward (hence why she's computer Jesus) than the fact that she's dead. So, I guess what I'm getting at here is that I think the point of her character was to move everyone forward towards a better future, which ties into why she was created in the first place.

I hope that made sense...

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:34 am
by Avebone
piddlesworth wrote:
Avebone wrote:
Mirai wrote:
Spoiler:
Personally I would of prefered it if only Usami was an AI and Nanami was a member of FF who went in with the other characters to observe them.


Yeah I agree with you there.

More Major Spoilers
Spoiler:
That is how I thought it was originally and then was kind of disappointed that she turned out to be an AI. Not because I dislike the whole AI aspect or anything, nor do I hate AI characters. Just solely for the fact that it lessened the blow of the 5th trial. I don't even mind that she was Hinata's main "love" interest. I think that is an interesting thing actually being the love interest but also an AI who is bound to the game they are in. I just wish if they were going with that approach they wouldn't have made her the one to sacrifice herself in the 5th trial is all.

Whoa whoa whoa WHOA. Hold up.

(major spoilers, which should be inferrable by now but whatever)
Spoiler:
...Love interest? I'm sorry, but... what? Sure, she had some minor ship tease-y moments with Hinata here and there, but it kind of balanced out into something that seemed pretty platonic by chapter 4, and her freetimes state that she doesn't really understand romance--though, admittedly, she does want to learn. Sure, they had an important relationship, but an important male-female relationship... doesn't necessarily mean it's romantic, and I honestly think that interpreting her relationship with Hinata as romantic kind of kills the point of her character since she's basically computer Jesus. Not to mention he denies it pretty flat-out when Souda accuses him of having feelings for Nanami, and not even a particularly tsundere way. If anyone's the "love interest," and I use this term extremely loosely since there isn't one, really, it'd actually be Komaeda, which is kind of weird because he's a dude but that doesn't really automatically invalidate anything. This is getting a bit long-winded as is and I don't want this to devolve into a shipping war (though I ship the OT3 so I'm in the clear either way), but I'll sum it up by saying that the feelings are pretty undeniable on Komaeda's side and there's a certain personal element Hinata has with him that he doesn't with Nanami, not to mention he plays the role of Sayaka in the first chapter...

Though, in defense of Nanami being an AI overall, I didn't really feel it devalued her sacrifice any more than Alter Ego's was devalued in the first game by virtue of him being an AI. She pretty clearly represents the themes of the game, and her death was shocking more due to the despair-inducing trial that led to it and the fact that her sacrifice ended up moving everyone forward (hence why she's computer Jesus) than the fact that she's dead. So, I guess what I'm getting at here is that I think the point of her character was to move everyone forward towards a better future, which ties into why she was created in the first place.

I hope that made sense...

Spoiler:
Yeah, I may have went a little too far there. Though I still feel like there was so romantic feelings on both parties there. Rather not have this devolve into a shipping war. So I retract what I say about that. Don't want to step on any ones toes with that.

As for the AI thing. It isn't about the fact that she is dead though, I think she needed to die at that trial, that isn't what I am saying. I don't believe her being an AI subtracted anything to that particular part. The only thing is in the 5th trial she gave herself up instead of you know hid that fact that she is a traitor which is all in character, that is all fine and dandy, It just doesn't really mean much when you weren't going to get out of the game in the first place. And you are right she fulfills the role of her character well. It is just for that particular moment it is just lessened to me personally because she is an AI. Alter Ego is different he never gave himself up in a trial, yeah he still sacrificed himself but not in a role were it would have killed everyone else otherwise. His sacrifice was not to me at all lessened by him being an AI, and unlike Nanami he could have got out of the school with them(I mean he still kind of did)

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:48 am
by Mirai
piddlesworth wrote:MAJOR SPOILERS

Spoiler:
Regarding whether or not they should stay dead... well, I agree and disagree. I agree that "oh, they're just comatose, they might get better" is kind of bullshit, but since this angle was introduced it would be a bit underwhelming if they didn't recover, since the fact that this miracle can happen is treated as a positive outcome and it wouldn't really make sense from a narrative perspective to include something like that without capitalizing on it, especially given the themes of the story.

So, I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't like that angle either, but since it does exist it would be disappointing if they didn't wake up, and I'd overall prefer it if it wasn't introduced at all. Still, it was kept ambiguous and just left as a "small chance" rather than a certainty, so it might just be left as a question mark rather than a true answer.


Anyway, my favorite people are (in no particular order) Tanaka, Komaeda, and Saionji.

Major Spoilers
Spoiler:
I understand where you're coming from and I can't really disagree with this as if they have put the feature in now there is a chance they can return but I really hope they don't. I could just about put up with them being referenced to in the next DR game but definitely wouldn't want them to appear again.


piddlesworth wrote:
Avebone wrote:Yeah I agree with you there.

More Major Spoilers
Spoiler:
That is how I thought it was originally and then was kind of disappointed that she turned out to be an AI. Not because I dislike the whole AI aspect or anything, nor do I hate AI characters. Just solely for the fact that it lessened the blow of the 5th trial. I don't even mind that she was Hinata's main "love" interest. I think that is an interesting thing actually being the love interest but also an AI who is bound to the game they are in. I just wish if they were going with that approach they wouldn't have made her the one to sacrifice herself in the 5th trial is all.

Whoa whoa whoa WHOA. Hold up.

(major spoilers, which should be inferrable by now but whatever)
Spoiler:
...Love interest? I'm sorry, but... what? Sure, she had some minor ship tease-y moments with Hinata here and there, but it kind of balanced out into something that seemed pretty platonic by chapter 4, and her freetimes state that she doesn't really understand romance--though, admittedly, she does want to learn. Sure, they had an important relationship, but an important male-female relationship... doesn't necessarily mean it's romantic, and I honestly think that interpreting her relationship with Hinata as romantic kind of kills the point of her character since she's basically computer Jesus. Not to mention he denies it pretty flat-out when Souda accuses him of having feelings for Nanami, and not even a particularly tsundere way. If anyone's the "love interest," and I use this term extremely loosely since there isn't one, really, it'd actually be Komaeda, which is kind of weird because he's a dude but that doesn't really automatically invalidate anything. This is getting a bit long-winded as is and I don't want this to devolve into a shipping war (though I ship the OT3 so I'm in the clear either way), but I'll sum it up by saying that the feelings are pretty undeniable on Komaeda's side and there's a certain personal element Hinata has with him that he doesn't with Nanami, not to mention he plays the role of Sayaka in the first chapter...

Though, in defense of Nanami being an AI overall, I didn't really feel it devalued her sacrifice any more than Alter Ego's was devalued in the first game by virtue of him being an AI. She pretty clearly represents the themes of the game, and her death was shocking more due to the despair-inducing trial that led to it and the fact that her sacrifice ended up moving everyone forward (hence why she's computer Jesus) than the fact that she's dead. So, I guess what I'm getting at here is that I think the point of her character was to move everyone forward towards a better future, which ties into why she was created in the first place.

I hope that made sense...

Major Spoilers

Spoiler:
Personally I never really understood all this Komaeda x Hinata shipping because to me the only reason why Komaeda was so interested in Hinata was because the both of them were obsessed with Hope's Peak Acadamy, even in the so-called implications of this pairing it was just the way Komaeda phrased it he doesn't have actual romantic feelings for him as look at how much he looked down on Hinata when he found out he was just a "reserve student" he pretty much considered him trash.
If it wasn't for Nanami being an AI I would of picked her as most likely "love interest" even though it was more of a friendship. So with that I would have to pick Tsumiki only because she slept in his bed and he seemed quite upset when he found out Tsumiki was the culprit in the 3rd case.
In the end though I wouldn't ship Hinata with anyone.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:56 am
by Saito
I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP

piddlesworth wrote:
Avebone wrote:
Mirai wrote:
Spoiler:
Personally I would of prefered it if only Usami was an AI and Nanami was a member of FF who went in with the other characters to observe them.


Yeah I agree with you there.

More Major Spoilers
Spoiler:
That is how I thought it was originally and then was kind of disappointed that she turned out to be an AI. Not because I dislike the whole AI aspect or anything, nor do I hate AI characters. Just solely for the fact that it lessened the blow of the 5th trial. I don't even mind that she was Hinata's main "love" interest. I think that is an interesting thing actually being the love interest but also an AI who is bound to the game they are in. I just wish if they were going with that approach they wouldn't have made her the one to sacrifice herself in the 5th trial is all.

Whoa whoa whoa WHOA. Hold up.

(major spoilers, which should be inferrable by now but whatever)
Spoiler:
...Love interest? I'm sorry, but... what? Sure, she had some minor ship tease-y moments with Hinata here and there, but it kind of balanced out into something that seemed pretty platonic by chapter 4, and her freetimes state that she doesn't really understand romance--though, admittedly, she does want to learn. Sure, they had an important relationship, but an important male-female relationship... doesn't necessarily mean it's romantic, and I honestly think that interpreting her relationship with Hinata as romantic kind of kills the point of her character since she's basically computer Jesus. Not to mention he denies it pretty flat-out when Souda accuses him of having feelings for Nanami, and not even a particularly tsundere way. If anyone's the "love interest," and I use this term extremely loosely since there isn't one, really, it'd actually be Komaeda, which is kind of weird because he's a dude but that doesn't really automatically invalidate anything. This is getting a bit long-winded as is and I don't want this to devolve into a shipping war (though I ship the OT3 so I'm in the clear either way), but I'll sum it up by saying that the feelings are pretty undeniable on Komaeda's side and there's a certain personal element Hinata has with him that he doesn't with Nanami, not to mention he plays the role of Sayaka in the first chapter...

Though, in defense of Nanami being an AI overall, I didn't really feel it devalued her sacrifice any more than Alter Ego's was devalued in the first game by virtue of him being an AI. She pretty clearly represents the themes of the game, and her death was shocking more due to the despair-inducing trial that led to it and the fact that her sacrifice ended up moving everyone forward (hence why she's computer Jesus) than the fact that she's dead. So, I guess what I'm getting at here is that I think the point of her character was to move everyone forward towards a better future, which ties into why she was created in the first place.

I hope that made sense...


Spoiler:
I, personally, believe that the idea of Nanami/Hinata ship comes from the final trial where the idea of Nanami is what brings Hinata around (or along those lines, it's been a while since I read throuh sdr2 and I don't plan to re read bc of the offical release. In terms of the "sorta Komaeda" love interest: highly, HIGHLY one sided. Hinata doesn't want anthing to do with Komaeda for the majority of the game, and continues to despise him after death as Komaeda's luck is what kills Nanami. The only time Hinata shows any feeling towards Komaeda is pre-trial 1.


Mirai wrote:Major Spoilers

Spoiler:
If it wasn't for Nanami being an AI I would of picked her as most likely "love interest" even though it was more of a friendship. So with that I would have to pick Tsumiki only because she slept in his bed and he seemed quite upset when he found out Tsumiki was the culprit in the 3rd case.
In the end though I wouldn't ship Hinata with anyone.


Spoiler:
Even in the case of her being an AI, we learned from the first game that characters do in fact treat these AI as friends, even after death (Naegi called Alter Ego a friend even though it was a computer program, and later after Trial 3, Kirigiri agreeing with him, so near enough, all the Chapter 3 survivors, maybe minus Togami and Fukawa, agreeing that Alter Ego is their friend - this still stands after Alter Ego's execution). So saying that a character could not develop feelings for a character who isn't human is silly, just my opinion. Please remember They only discovered Nanami was an AI during Komaeda's trial so the idea of Hinata not having feelings for her because she's an AI kinda goes out the window.

In terms of the Tsumiki ship, this one is a little harder to deflate as it's obvious that Hinata had some sort of feelings for her, whether it be friends or more. However, using the "in his bed" fact as evidence of the ship simply isn't enough. Tsumiki actually used the fact she was with Hinata (I believe) as her evidence against the fact some accused her, she used Hinata as an alibi. While I have not seen her free times, I'm saving FTE for when I actually play, other reasons to support the ship could be the amount of time they spent together in the hospital. But like some believe with Nanami, it could just be strong friendship.

I think all in all, the ships come down to preference of character, but in the end DR is not a romantic series AT ALL. It's a game where teenagers kill each other, there's no romance to it at all (I'm talking the Canon universe, not the Island Mode universe, because that can be romanticsed to a large extent). I just happen to ship Nanami with Hinata mainly because of art and such, but also because of a lot of their interactions during the story, especially Komaeda's trial and after that (where Nanami appears in his dream, and there are certain lines delivered that reinforce the fact there was "something" more than friendship between them). And I think I'll just repeat it again, the scene where Nanami appears to him in the final trial really implicates something, because if I remember correctly, Hinata says a line along the lines of "I still didn't get a chance to say it." my mind forgets if he proceeds this with "thank you" or if the screen simply fades back into trial, but it can be guessed that the line is either "I love you" or "thank you".


/Ends protecting ship/

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:14 pm
by piddlesworth
NO.
DON'T TELL ME I STARTED A SHIPPING WAR.


Endgame spoiler warning in every single spoiler tag.

Avebone wrote:
Spoiler:
Yeah, I may have went a little too far there. Though I still feel like there was so romantic feelings on both parties there. Rather not have this devolve into a shipping war. So I retract what I say about that. Don't want to step on any ones toes with that.

As for the AI thing. It isn't about the fact that she is dead though, I think she needed to die at that trial, that isn't what I am saying. I don't believe her being an AI subtracted anything to that particular part. The only thing is in the 5th trial she gave herself up instead of you know hid that fact that she is a traitor which is all in character, that is all fine and dandy, It just doesn't really mean much when you weren't going to get out of the game in the first place. And you are right she fulfills the role of her character well. It is just for that particular moment it is just lessened to me personally because she is an AI. Alter Ego is different he never gave himself up in a trial, yeah he still sacrificed himself but not in a role were it would have killed everyone else otherwise. His sacrifice was not to me at all lessened by him being an AI, and unlike Nanami he could have got out of the school with them(I mean he still kind of did)

Spoiler:
A perfectly fine interpretation, though I'd personally refrain from assigning romantic story roles to anyone unless they're made explicit since that's mixing canon and headcanon, which tends to be like one of those explosive chemical reactions your science teacher warned you about.

And alright, I see what you're saying. I still think being an AI ties in well enough with the point of her character that it negates the difference in emotion, so I guess we can agree to disagree on that front.


Mirai wrote:Major Spoilers

Spoiler:
Personally I never really understood all this Komaeda x Hinata shipping because to me the only reason why Komaeda was so interested in Hinata was because the both of them were obsessed with Hope's Peak Acadamy, even in the so-called implications of this pairing it was just the way Komaeda phrased it he doesn't have actual romantic feelings for him as look at how much he looked down on Hinata when he found out he was just a "reserve student" he pretty much considered him trash.
If it wasn't for Nanami being an AI I would of picked her as most likely "love interest" even though it was more of a friendship. So with that I would have to pick Tsumiki only because she slept in his bed and he seemed quite upset when he found out Tsumiki was the culprit in the 3rd case.
In the end though I wouldn't ship Hinata with anyone.


Spoiler:
Alright, yeah, this is a pretty common misconception so I'll be blunt. Hope I don't seem rude.

Komaeda's feelings for Hinata have absolutely nothing to do with hope or hope's peak academy.

It's easy to see how one would get that impression, but it's made explicitly clear in the drama CD that basically spells out their relationship that the reason Komaeda cares about Hinata (whether you want to interpret it as platonic or romantic) is because Hinata kept talking to him and trying to understand him after chapter 1. There's also the scene in the hospital in chapter 3 when Komaeda has the liar disease, and this line after the chapter 4 reveal. His actions in chapters 4 and 5 are complicated as all hell an would warrant an essay of their own, but the bottom line is that it's not that he didn't care about Hinata, but he's basically the Unfettered trope incarnate and is willing to throw everything away in pursuit of hope and even then he arguably left the chapter 5 case open for the students to solve.

Then there are his Dangan Island events and kokoronpa, where he obviously cares about Hinata and says he can enjoy even the silence with him, and the ending where becoming friends with Hinata is the good luck that made everything worth it. Dangan island isn't canon, but the characterization is. Same characters, different situation.

My own interpretation of his feelings towards Hinata is that Hinata was the first person he ever felt similar to, since everyone always shut him out for one reason or another, and he tried to frame the feelings he developed in the context of hope he uses as a crutch to keep himself from falling to despair (hence why all the suggestions he makes re: Hinata's talent in his first FTE are jokes save for soothing presence/comforter) so he wouldn't have to properly face the fact that he cares about someone, keeping in mind that everyone who's ever been close to him has either abandoned him or died. When Hinata doesn't completely brush him off like everyone in his life has and still tried to understand him, even under the pretense of fear (which he drops in Komaeda's fifth event), it's enough to make him fall in love with him, but he's still afraid of facing his true feelings and thus pushes him away when they're about to reconcile, and definitely isn't willing to prioritize Hinata over the belief system that's been keeping him going. Yours may vary, but I do hope that makes sense.

So... all that said, I don't really think it's right to say Komaeda doesn't care about Hinata as a person at all. His priorities are extremely skewed and he's not entirely sane, but that doesn't mean he's incapable of having actual feelings for another person.

Also... I just want to make sure, but have you read his freetime events? Because the last one comes with what's pretty clearly an aborted love confession (read the TL notes).


Saito wrote:I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP

Spoiler:
I, personally, believe that the idea of Nanami/Hinata ship comes from the final trial where the idea of Nanami is what brings Hinata around (or along those lines, it's been a while since I read throuh sdr2 and I don't plan to re read bc of the offical release. In terms of the "sorta Komaeda" love interest: highly, HIGHLY one sided. Hinata doesn't want anthing to do with Komaeda for the majority of the game, and continues to despise him after death as Komaeda's luck is what kills Nanami. The only time Hinata shows any feeling towards Komaeda is pre-trial 1.


Spoiler:
The final trial is sweet, sure, and they clearly care about each other, but what about it specifically indicates that it might be non-platonic? If you want to support a romantic interpretation of their relationship, you're actually better off looking at her freetime events. I see where the ship comes from, and like I said, I ship the OT3; I just don't think it's canonically romantic.

As for Hinata despising Komaeda... yeah, no, that's factually wrong. See, the thing is that Oren's translation of Hinata often makes him out to be harsher than he is in the original text, thus he seems outright mean towards Komaeda when the original text reads as more confused/angry. He definitely cared about him during chapter 1, but the trial left him feeling betrayed, confused, and afraid, thus he generally acts like an angry baby towards him. Still, it's indicated on several occasions (most notably here) that he still does care about him on some level, but doesn't actually want to face that. Then there's Komaeda's freetime arc, in which Hinata continues trying to understand him, saying that it's only fear that motivates him, but like I said, he drops this in the fifth event, which I'd say indicates that it's just what he was telling himself (ie: the classic "d-don't get me wrong, it's not because I like you or anything" in which vein it's worth noting that Hinata has been referred to as a tsundere in-game). He then almost forgives Komaeda before he backtracks. After chapter 5, he didn't display any stronger anger and confusion towards him than he ever did and even said he would definitely see his final message. His relationship with him can be summed up pretty well by his report card and the drama CD, the latter of which I linked earlier.

On a meta level, the fact that they become friends in Dangan Island--that is, the good ending--kind of indicates that the two of them patching things up is considered a positive outcome that almost happened in the game but couldn't because then the plot would go in another direction, not to mention that Hinata's promise to wait for everyone at the end would include Komaeda by definition and he's not excluded from the perfect world created in the chapter 6 trial, so if he wakes up it's likely they'd make amends.


Saito wrote:
Spoiler:
Even in the case of her being an AI, we learned from the first game that characters do in fact treat these AI as friends, even after death (Naegi called Alter Ego a friend even though it was a computer program, and later after Trial 3, Kirigiri agreeing with him, so near enough, all the Chapter 3 survivors, maybe minus Togami and Fukawa, agreeing that Alter Ego is their friend - this still stands after Alter Ego's execution). So saying that a character could not develop feelings for a character who isn't human is silly, just my opinion. Please remember They only discovered Nanami was an AI during Komaeda's trial so the idea of Hinata not having feelings for her because she's an AI kinda goes out the window.

In terms of the Tsumiki ship, this one is a little harder to deflate as it's obvious that Hinata had some sort of feelings for her, whether it be friends or more. However, using the "in his bed" fact as evidence of the ship simply isn't enough. Tsumiki actually used the fact she was with Hinata (I believe) as her evidence against the fact some accused her, she used Hinata as an alibi. While I have not seen her free times, I'm saving FTE for when I actually play, other reasons to support the ship could be the amount of time they spent together in the hospital. But like some believe with Nanami, it could just be strong friendship.

I think all in all, the ships come down to preference of character, but in the end DR is not a romantic series AT ALL. It's a game where teenagers kill each other, there's no romance to it at all (I'm talking the Canon universe, not the Island Mode universe, because that can be romanticsed to a large extent). I just happen to ship Nanami with Hinata mainly because of art and such, but also because of a lot of their interactions during the story, especially Komaeda's trial and after that (where Nanami appears in his dream, and there are certain lines delivered that reinforce the fact there was "something" more than friendship between them). And I think I'll just repeat it again, the scene where Nanami appears to him in the final trial really implicates something, because if I remember correctly, Hinata says a line along the lines of "I still didn't get a chance to say it." my mind forgets if he proceeds this with "thank you" or if the screen simply fades back into trial, but it can be guessed that the line is either "I love you" or "thank you".


/Ends protecting ship/

Spoiler:
Just going to quickly add that Hinata did finish that statement with a "thank you," and I agree that it's definitely not a romantic series, there isn't actually a "real" love interest, though characterization in Dangan Island is still canon and should be taken into account.

In any event, I'm not saying one ship is better than the other so much as saying that Nanami's role in the story isn't that of a love interest, and it's kind of problematic to brush off the significance of a same-sex relationship with a lot more canon evidence when assigning roles like that. (though in that vein need I remind you which two characters are suspiciously close to holding hands on the official site, and that someone had to intentionally position them that way)

Do what I do and multiship. It's easier. ;)


That was long-winded. I'm sorry.

Now, let's leave this subject at the docks and talk about something we can all agree on.
(Chapter 4 spoilers)
Spoiler:
What in the WORLD happened to Tanaka's hamsters?!

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:39 pm
by Avebone
piddlesworth wrote:NO.
DON'T TELL ME I STARTED A SHIPPING WAR.


Now, let's leave this subject at the docks and talk about something we can all agree on.
(Chapter 4 spoilers)
Spoiler:
What in the WORLD happened to Tanaka's hamsters?!

...To be fair I may have accidentally started the shipping war that might actually be my bad.
Spoiler:
You know I wonder if they were actually in the game with him or not... or just like AIs or something...little tiny hamster AIs. If they are in there with them I just kind of assumed Sonia started taking care of them or something like that.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:40 pm
by Saito
I'd quote that but arranging it so I get the parts I want on a tablet is torture
But yeah, as I mentioned, I haven't seen any FTE in sdr2 because I like leaving some stuff unknown (The only FTE I've read is Owari's because I love her so much)
Spoiler:
her FTE is so damn tragic and sad, like, she's not just a meat eater guys


But yeah, onto the last part of your post:
Spoiler:
you don't expect the survivors to go hungry, do you?

Was that too dark...

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:50 pm
by ZekeFreek
The thing I didn't like about DR2 was

Spoiler:
The ending. It's much much more bleak than the first game's ending, which I feel muddles the message of the series in a way.

Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:13 pm
by puellako
ZekeFreek wrote:The thing I didn't like about DR2 was

Spoiler:
The ending. It's much much more bleak than the first game's ending, which I feel muddles the message of the series in a way.


Well to be honest not really-

Spoiler:
The message at the end of SDR2 was that yes, these kids were bad and committed terrible atrocities, but only because they happened to succumb to the terrible force that is despair which was something they COULD overcome. The message was that these kids are redeemable by creating a future in accordance to their own dream. yes it's bleak in that they might NOT wake up, but for the kids that DID in fact wake up they are given a second chance to redeem themselves and shape their own future. In that right, it's not at all bleak, but more hopeful.