'Censorship' in Gaming

[Rednal]

I approve of any sensible edit to a game.

I approve of self-censorship when appropriate, such as a company changing something in a game because they decided it didn't fit with the overall feel they were trying to create.

I generally disapprove of Government censorship, except where there is a clear, obvious, and acceptable reason for it, though I hope the work of groups such as the ESRB will suffice to deal with major problems before the Government steps in. Because I don't want the Government to regulate video games.

o wo b

[perrandy]

I posted on GameFAQs a while ago that if Mugen Souls passed with a T, the reasoning behind Sadie's change would be questioned by those who aren't very trusting. Since I never believe the motives of a company, I of course never trust their stated intent; nothing personal against NISA, they are higher on my trust level than most. Anytime the content is edited in a way that would potentially alter the rating though, my mind instantly thinks marketing and censorship.

Keep in mind that ratings do not exist on a "sliding scale." That is to say, and I posted this elsewhere, but if you have a movie, say Toy Story, which was rated what, PG? Add two f-bombs to it and it HAS to get rated "R." Now edit out those two f-bombs. It doesn't "slide" down to PG-13, it goes to PG because the perceived offensive content is no longer in the title, and what remains is relatively tame.

So something getting rated Teen in the video game world is under the same set of rules. It doesn't mean "well it would've gotten Mature," at all. It's not a sliding scale.

hey lyner long time no see ya.glad to hear that your still around

[Venus]

What Atlus did to the original Persona on the Playstation was unforgivable. They made characters who were originally Japanese into white characters, changed their names...made the game easier...changed the names of Personae, they changed the setting from Japan to America. I've never seen a worst censorship then this.

[Rednal]

I think they've pretty much learned their lesson, though. o wo And let's face it, standards were different back then.

Also: Mark danced crazy!

[Daverost]

I'm opposed to censorship of any kind, no matter how minor, but I do understand that sometimes it's a necessary evil just to simply have something.

While I can accept it, I don't support it, and I will sometimes refuse to support a product on principle.

[Venus]

I think they've pretty much learned their lesson, though. o wo And let's face it, standards were different back then.

Also: Mark danced crazy!

Now I'm Super Guido!

[BDSMKane]

Spoiler:

I see your point, but as I said before, I am generally just a paranoid person that doesn't trust the motives of businesses, or even people really. I also don't want to try to debate with you about that aspect because I respect you and appreciate your candor, so just chalk me up as a loon who needs more faith.

I don't see how you expect to get or contribute anything productive in this discussion with that kind of attitude. It seems you're going to deflect all reasonable arguments against you or your stance as "I'm paranoid, I don't believe you," so you're not going to get much from here, and you're not going to have a very easy time convincing other people either.

Maybe your only objective is to convert everyone to your way of thinking, but if you're actually trying to get something out of the conversation you really need to change your attitude, because I personally don't see any value in reading the words of or trying to reason with someone who just openly states "Maybe you're right, but I think you're lying/I don't trust you."

I would like to point out that my statement was directed towards Lyner specifically, and the only issue I am unwilling to further expand on is my lack of trust in corporate motives. The problem with trying to further debate that point is that I'm posting a message on a corporate website, and in relationship to the corporate statements. So while I generally prefer to speak my mind, I'm also trying not to say things that are just plain rude. My experiences with Lyner and Houk on the forums have been good, and NISA has earned my respect and given me no reason that I shouldn't trust them, so I see no reason to flaunt my natural doubt and make it a talking point.

However as it pertains to you and the conversation at hand, I'm still pretty open. My general nature is I don't trust anyone, but despite being arrogant, I find that when you refuse to acknowledge the words of others you shut yourself off from more potential growth. Since I'm not omnipotent and I do crave knowledge, I like hearing what others have to say.

I'm also not honestly trying to 'convert' anyone to my point of view, I just like to share my view on things since it tends to be unique and I've been told I express myself well. I could also point out that if your argument rests solely on 'We should trust someone', it is a rather weak argument in the first place. From what I've seen though, that is not the basis of what you usually say, and I really don't see how my comment to Lyner really influences our own conversations.

In the end though it is up to you. I'm going to continue to post my thoughts and people can either ignore, read and not respond, or read and reply. If you feel uncomfortable discussing any issues with me and want to just stop that is fine and I'll respect your choice, so just let me know.

[knightnightmare]

In the case of games like these most of us want as close to the original product as we can get. I mean we can all accept that certain things will be changed and tweaked during localization that is just part of the process. When you start taking things out of games because it makes some people feel uneasy about some of the content that is where the problem comes in cause where does that end? As far as Mugen Souls goes the mIni game is no great loss as far as gameplay I still think it will be a fun game and a nice addition to NISA's line up. They said this will not be a practice they take all the time but it will make me feel uneasy about every release here on out for a while.

While some say me saying something like this makes me sound entitled that is a pure fanboy argument when they have nothing else to throw at you. Trust me I have heard that many times before from Nintendo fanboys over Xenoblade. I mean honestly in this case would you go buy a movie from a store get it home and it have several scenes edited out from it's original release you would be mad because you would think you should get it just like it was when you saw it at the movies would then you also feel entitled?

[vampko]

In the case of games like these most of us want as close to the original product as we can get. I mean we can all accept that certain things will be changed and tweaked during localization that is just part of the process. When you start taking things out of games because it makes some people feel uneasy about some of the content that is where the problem comes in cause where does that end? As far as Mugen Souls goes the mIni game is no great loss as far as gameplay I still think it will be a fun game and a nice addition to NISA's line up. They said this will not be a practice they take all the time but it will make me feel uneasy about every release here on out for a while.

While some say me saying something like this makes me sound entitled that is a pure fanboy argument when they have nothing else to throw at you. Trust me I have heard that many times before from Nintendo fanboys over Xenoblade. I mean honestly in this case would you go buy a movie from a store get it home and it have several scenes edited out from it's original release you would be mad because you would think you should get it just like it was when you saw it at the movies would then you also feel entitled?

We were informed of the changes before purchase. So, it'd be the person's fault for buying the movie knowing that it had those edits.

@BDSM
NISA isn't really a 'corporation'. They're way too small to be considered that. They are a business though.

[neonie]

@BDSM
NISA isn't really a 'corporation'. They're way too small to be considered that. They are a business though.

Nippon Ichi has stock in JSADAQ. I believe that would categorize them to fall under the title of "corporation".

[NakedPlum]

What Atlus did to the original Persona on the Playstation was unforgivable. They made characters who were originally Japanese into white characters, changed their names...made the game easier...changed the names of Personae, they changed the setting from Japan to America. I've never seen a worst censorship then this.

That's localization, not censorship.
If you want to see worse play Devil Kings. I mean Sengoku Basara 1.

[ZekeFreek]

That's localization, not censorship.

Okay, no. Even I'll admit what they did to the first Persona was waaaaay beyond what was necessary.

[NakedPlum]

That's 100% localization son.

[BDSMKane]

That's localization, not censorship.

Okay, no. Even I'll admit what they did to the first Persona was waaaaay beyond what was necessary.

See, I actually tend to agree with NakedPlum. I know a lot of people on here are calling the major localization changes that don't need to be done censorship, but what exactly is it censoring? Our pure sensibilities won't be hurt by character names or by country the story is based in, so why are they doing it? To try to better appeal to the Western market; localization.

Just because what they are localizing isn't something you like doesn't make it censorship. They quite easily fall into the realm of edits. If the Neptunia series was based in New York instead of Gamindustri in the Western localization, it would be absurd and annoy us all, but it would still be localization and not censorship.

censoring: to examine in order to suppress or delete anything considered objectionable <censor the news>; also : to suppress or delete as objectionable <censor out indecent passages
localize: 1: to make local : orient locally

[Rednal]

...So, can we all agree that Edits do not equal Censorship, at least?