Hot Topic Game Discussion

A place for everybody to talk about anything game-related.
User avatar
Rednal
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 16942
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:09 am
Location: Cuddling with Coco

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby Rednal » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:26 pm

True, but in an effort to emphasize how "open" they are, designers might handle it poorly - as in, "the character can't show any preferences", resulting in someone who ends up looking completely unable to decide on things or form meaningful relationships because getting too "close" would mean they're not open to other things. It's sort of like being so concerned about political correctness that you say nothing at all because you're worried it will be taken the wrong way.

Most companies try to do things well, but the level of success can vary.
PSN: LordRednal / Twitter: @Rednal29 ] Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/rednal29
Image

User avatar
neonie
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 5625
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Variety In All Things
Contact:

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby neonie » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:17 pm

Man that would be amazing if like, way beyond just gender stuff, somehow developers could make a relationship system that took into account specific actions and decisions made by the player to determine how another character would react towards them. Like basically a personality system, where if a character sees you doing or saying certain things, they'll react to you differently based on that. Maybe you could make a choice with someone in your party and just for the rest of the game they mock you for it whenever they get the chance.
Image
Houk wrote:THE HYPOTHETICAL CENSORSHIP OF BABIES!

Spoiler:

User avatar
lopez
Mid-Boss
Mid-Boss
Posts: 17771
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: at school silly :p
Contact:

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby lopez » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:58 pm

It's good to be mindful of others when creating and expressing ideas, but it's also true that there will always be someone that finds fault, or feels contempt, animosity, disdain, etc... for something, no matter the creator's intention(s).

User avatar
redsilversnake
Netherworld Baron
Netherworld Baron
Posts: 669
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby redsilversnake » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:41 am

lopez wrote:It's good to be mindful of others when creating and expressing ideas, but it's also true that there will always be someone that finds fault, or feels contempt, animosity, disdain, etc... for something, no matter the creator's intention(s).

Yeah, but those homophobes and male supremacists shouldn't be who creators appeal to anyway.

[For the record, they and other bigots would indeed be the majority of those upset, unless these creators just handled things terribly.]
Some people just need to learn that their opinions are wrong

User avatar
Ultimate_Nova_X
Netherworld Marquis
Netherworld Marquis
Posts: 1706
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Taiwan/Canada

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby Ultimate_Nova_X » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:53 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EI6COXWTJg

Sad that these things are slowly becoming a thing, yet we STILL live in a world where localizers think they need to butcher games for whatever reason.

User avatar
lopez
Mid-Boss
Mid-Boss
Posts: 17771
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: at school silly :p
Contact:

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby lopez » Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:29 am

I've seen countless games draw inspiration from various cultures before, it's just that certain games like those and even Guacamelee are putting the various ethnic cultures toward the forefront rather than being purely regulated to enemy/character/weapon designs, locales and/or lore/mythos.

Localization changes are made due to the intended target audience. Some are made due to the age demographics (i.e. Pokemon/Yokai Watch and school-age children) and others due to the deep cultural connections that'd make little to no sense to an outside culture(s) (i.e. like Okami or SMT).

At the end of the day it's all personal preferences. Some people love/hate the changes, some don't notice and some don't care. Everybody enjoys/plays/appreciates games for different reasons.

For those that need/want the original experience, the best thing I can say is learn the native language and import the game. Localization, at it's purest form of translation, is still subject to change due to the inherent complexity of language.

User avatar
vampko
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 42005
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:31 am
Location: 暮し幸せ

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby vampko » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:52 pm

lopez wrote:rather than being purely regulated to enemy/character/weapon designs, locales and/or lore/mythos.

I ask, what in the world else is there to focus on :?

lopez wrote:Localization changes are made due to the intended target audience. Some are made due to the age demographics (i.e. Pokemon/Yokai Watch and school-age children) and others due to the deep cultural connections that'd make little to no sense to an outside culture(s) (i.e. like Okami or SMT).

These changes could have just as easily been done to Guacamelee. But they weren't, because it's not Japan. And anything from Japan is put under this sort of lens, that says that Americans can't get it. So it has to be changed. I got cultural references when I was a little kid (when I was allowed by the localizers to see them), and when I was a teenager, if I didn't get it, i looked it up. Learned a great deal that way. Which is really easy because we have the internet.

I don't see why people can't deal with popping on google and searching "Tsukuyomi" or something or other. It takes less than a minute. And the research is at most five minutes. But that's only if you really want to learn more. Now, when it comes to really out there 2-chan references...let me tell you that even the Japanese have issue with those sometimes (I've seen them questioning references in Nep games before). It's really not a big deal if people don't get them. Generally there's plenty of humor/references to culture that aren't that deeply ingrained. And stuff that people can easily learn a little about.
あの巨人シノはあんたたちの金髪少女の髪を食べたいな顔をしてるよ
Image
AniList (no need to reg to view)
[06:46:27] <Solice> you're like dealing with a bag of rabid cats
Zdood: You are who you are. And you are a captain at the wheel of an easily-sinkable fleet of ships made of duct tape.
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
redsilversnake
Netherworld Baron
Netherworld Baron
Posts: 669
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:10 pm

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby redsilversnake » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:25 pm

vampko wrote:I don't see why people can't deal with popping on google and searching "Tsukuyomi" or something or other. It takes less than a minute. And the research is at most five minutes.

Not if you're as bad at search engines as I am…
Anyway, the only actual reasons for most localization changes are xenophobia and/or assuming that your audience are kids or have what you believe to be the same narrow worldview as children. I mean, yeah, there are proverbs and jokes between languages that just don't work when you translate them, but there is indeed a lot of middle ground between that and changing almost everything about the setting.
Some people just need to learn that their opinions are wrong

User avatar
PringlesXD
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 15853
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:12 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby PringlesXD » Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:35 pm

I, for one, welcome changes in localization as long as the original intent is the same, save for a few exceptions where a particular story is rooted in a specific culture or folklore. Direct translation scripts can be pretty bad, and it sticks out like a sore thumb when foreign words are used randomly.

Eg.: Imagine if a character says "I love my onii-sama!" in an English dub. It feels weird to listen to (or read).

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby Seventh » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:26 pm

There's that, then there's changing rice balls you can clearly see into donuts because you worry your audience might not be able to comprehend the idea of foreign food.
Image

User avatar
Ultimate_Nova_X
Netherworld Marquis
Netherworld Marquis
Posts: 1706
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Taiwan/Canada

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby Ultimate_Nova_X » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:48 pm

PringlesXD wrote:I, for one, welcome changes in localization as long as the original intent is the same, save for a few exceptions where a particular story is rooted in a specific culture or folklore. Direct translation scripts can be pretty bad, and it sticks out like a sore thumb when foreign words are used randomly.

Eg.: Imagine if a character says "I love my onii-sama!" in an English dub. It feels weird to listen to (or read).

I think this is also a problem, people make the black and white assumption when these issues are brought up. Also, the words I bolded are of significance.

Personally, I don't mind it in text form, but most if not all of us would actually be against the specific example you gave in voiced form, despite being against localizations today in general.

lopez wrote:I've seen countless games draw inspiration from various cultures before, it's just that certain games like those and even Guacamelee are putting the various ethnic cultures toward the forefront rather than being purely regulated to enemy/character/weapon designs, locales and/or lore/mythos.


You sort of just stated every category that would fall under textual content...

lopez wrote:Localization changes are made due to the intended target audience. Some are made due to the age demographics (i.e. Pokemon/Yokai Watch and school-age children) and others due to the deep cultural connections that'd make little to no sense to an outside culture(s) (i.e. like Okami or SMT).


And once again, the old xenophobia justification. You'd think the intended audience would be the more tolerant and would "get it", considering they're interested in the games in the first place, but apparently not...

And like vamp said, "various ethnic cultures toward the forefront" could also be subject to the same changes. There's really no reason to justify a double standard taken here.

lopez wrote:At the end of the day it's all personal preferences. Some people love/hate the changes, some don't notice and some don't care. Everybody enjoys/plays/appreciates games for different reasons.


Yet butchering is taken over priority than keeping the way it was and the way it is supposed to be. Priorities really needs a rework for this case.

lopez wrote:For those that need/want the original experience, the best thing I can say is learn the native language and import the game. Localization, at it's purest form of translation, is still subject to change due to the inherent complexity of language.


On the individual level, this is a great suggestion...to oneself.

Directing this imperative to someone else would be like me telling a pro-localization butchering person to "go play Call of Duty if u luv 'murica so much!" Yes, it's exaggerated on purpose to show its flaws easier, but the logic presented here is the same You'd think the explanation would be last part was unnecessary, but I actually presented the same analogy on gamefaqs and got called for it for using COD as an example. Though someone else did understand my intention and explained it for me.

Telling someone else to do this is sidestepping the issues with localizations...

...unless everyone does it, but that poses another problem, if everyone does this, there's no point in localizing foreign products in the first place.

shadowmaksim
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 4344
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:11 am

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby shadowmaksim » Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:51 pm

Good to see this discussion is still going its usual routine.

User avatar
PringlesXD
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 15853
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:12 am
Location: Brazil

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby PringlesXD » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:56 pm

Seventh wrote:There's that, then there's changing rice balls you can clearly see into donuts because you worry your audience might not be able to comprehend the idea of foreign food.

Which I do not agree with. If they're rice balls, they're rice balls.

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:I think this is also a problem, people make the black and white assumption when these issues are brought up. Also, the words I bolded are of significance.

Personally, I don't mind it in text form, but most if not all of us would actually be against the specific example you gave in voiced form, despite being against localizations today in general.

Sorry, I only used this example because nothing else came to mind.

It kind of makes me cringe to see stuff like this even in text form, actually :P . I was watching the episode of an anime today, and a character mentioned another one by "Chairman-sensei". Granted, she did say the equivalent in Japanese, but I think the direct translation is in quite poor taste. Is Chairman the character's name? So she could be called "Teacher Chairman"? These are the kind of things I think don't translate well and could easily be replaced with just "Chairman" or "Ms. Chairman". But again, it's just my opinion.

User avatar
SurrealBrain
Geo Master
Geo Master
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:21 pm

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby SurrealBrain » Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:28 am

Hot Topic gaming...sorry if I'm being immature, but I admit, I thought of the Hot Topic stores when I read the title...sorry.

Anyways...I guess since I'm a stranger to this, I'll just toss in my two cents on yearly release since I already typed it, if that's okay. It's not like they should stop business for a year, that's just crazy, and would hurt the company(s) involved. It's why you should have as many teams as possible. However, at the same time, I do prefer some breathing room between installments in a specific series, or at least when developers start work on the next one, they get as much time as they need.

I hear Call of Duty has gotten inconsistent with its quality lately. Never paid too much attention to the series even in its heyday, so where exactly it started, I don't know, though it seems if Ghosts didn't start it, it's where it got noticeable.

I will say, though, that as a longtime fan of Sonic, even an almost yearly schedule hurts a game. If a game is anything above "decent," it's ususally by pure accident, even if it doesn't seem that way at the time. We thought with Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations, they finally learned their lesson...only to slip right back into old habits with Sonic Lost World. Whether you liked it or not, you probably thought it wasn't as good as Generations, gameplay wise.

While Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric was handled by a different developer, it further derailed Sonic's attempts at restoring his former glory after Colors and Generations made it look like things would go up from there. This wasn't enough to entirely kill my respect for Sega. Cranky Food Friends was ehat finally did them in for me, though that's not relevant to this at all, and Rise of Lyric still cause my respect for Sega to take a huge hit regardless.

You gotta take time to develop these games. I think people would rather have one good game than a thousand downright awful ones. Besides, which would you choose; quality, or quantity? I like more games in a series I enjoy, but if they come at the cost of quality, I think I can live without one for a few years.

User avatar
Ultimate_Nova_X
Netherworld Marquis
Netherworld Marquis
Posts: 1706
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Taiwan/Canada

Re: Hot Topic Game Discussion

Postby Ultimate_Nova_X » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:20 pm

PringlesXD wrote:Which I do not agree with. If they're rice balls, they're rice balls.


Yep, if they're ramen, then they're certainly not hamburgers.

PringlesXD wrote:Sorry, I only used this example because nothing else came to mind.


It's fine, it wasn't directed at you so much as it was the general assumption of the other group. Houk was shown to fall for this all the time.

PringlesXD wrote:It kind of makes me cringe to see stuff like this even in text form, actually :P . I was watching the episode of an anime today, and a character mentioned another one by "Chairman-sensei". Granted, she did say the equivalent in Japanese, but I think the direct translation is in quite poor taste. Is Chairman the character's name? So she could be called "Teacher Chairman"? These are the kind of things I think don't translate well and could easily be replaced with just "Chairman" or "Ms. Chairman". But again, it's just my opinion.


As there's no equivalent in any other language afaik, text form is kind of the best we got. If they're not, then it'll take that much longer for the relevant fanbase to know what they mean.

While this may sound less sound if you mainly listen to redubs, but...you shouldn't listen to redubs. :P And their consideration definitely should not be prioritized in any case.

Also, Chairman-sensei doesn't make sense even in Japanese. :?

SurrealBrain wrote:You gotta take time to develop these games. I think people would rather have one good game than a thousand downright awful ones. Besides, which would you choose; quality, or quantity? I like more games in a series I enjoy, but if they come at the cost of quality, I think I can live without one for a few years.


As I'm not a Sonic or COD fan, which I think is a good thing for the latter, can't comment on anything else you said.

But if you were a developer, what would you do? Make 1 good game every 5 years, or make 5 mediocre games every year? You already have an established fanbase and are pretty confident they'll buy it regardless...


Return to “General Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 10 guests