MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here-)

Mugen Mugen! Rock the Mugen! Mugen Souls Z!
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Teddie Sage
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Teddie Sage » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:49 am

That sounded childish, just saying. NISA's doing the right thing.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Beedlebud » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:53 am

I'll get it used somewhere down the line.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Coreven » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:54 am

Teddie Sage wrote:That sounded childish, just saying. NISA's doing the right thing.
You're free to say what you want, but it doesn't make you right. I don't give a shit about bathing them little girls in general, but I do give a shit about poisonous localizations.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Teddie Sage » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:56 am

All that because of the boring minigame and the CGs being removed in our continent where paedophilia/ephebophilia is wrong? :lol:

@Coreven: Whatever. I'm just glad the game is getting localized.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby vertical09 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:12 am

Teddie Sage wrote:That sounded childish, just saying. NISA's doing the right thing.

If this is the "right thing", NISA clearly needs to start screwing up.
Last edited by vertical09 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby grgspunk » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:14 am

*Sigh*

Honestly, after the fiasco that was the original MS controversy, I was hoping NISA would either refrain from localizing games of this sort, or turn a new leaf.

I guess I stand corrected.

And not encouraging them to go for the most fanservice-y stuff they can in the future, either. When you support the company, they can do more. When stuff gets published that pushes at the limits, it helps to expand people's horizons and make the same content more acceptable in the future. Buying this game will help bring fanservice over, not stop it, because it signals to the companies that games like this are valuable. ^^


Rednal, at the risk of me sounding incivil and disruptive...You know what? Screw it.

I tried to stay quiet during the controversy with the previous game for fear of pulling my hair out, but obviously it didn't work.


I'm "Going Spartan" again.


Let me go over this one more time: You're telling me that if I give them my hard-earned cash for a game that has content editing in it, then despite their discomfort for certain types of content, it'll somehow make such content more acceptable and they'll turn a new leaf when it comes to releasing future titles with similar content.


I'm sorry, bu-Actually no, I'm not sorry. What the fuck kind of inane logic is this?


This quote, THIS. ONE. QUOTE. summarizes just how much you (and nearly everyone else in this thread) are trying to sweep the issue under the rug, as well as how much you're trying to cheerlead NISA to drive on with their localization in spite of the controversy with the previous game, just so you can have your favorite game localized "in some form".

You're saying buying this game will help bring more fanservice over, not stop it? How the hell do you get more fanservice if they end up cutting it out?

You're saying publishing stuff that pushes the limits expands people's horizons and makes the same kind of content more acceptable for future titles? How is that even possible if they cut out content that actually DOES push the limits?

You're trying to convince me and everyone else that may not have the balls to speak out to buy their game and support their content editing under some grand delusion that if you do so, they'll warm up to said content in a future title?

Excuse me, but that's not the way it works.

Have you or anyone else ever heard of the concept of voting with your dollars?

When I see someone give their money to pay for a localized game that they know has edited content, then that person, by default, accepts such edits and supports their company's approach to editing content.

If a company were to get acceptable sales from a localized title with cut content, they're going to believe their approach to localization has not gotten in the way of yielding some sort of revenue, and they won't have any reason to change it for releasing future titles. How the hell do you argue otherwise? Their ultimate goal is to convince you to get your MONEY.

Anyone can argue that the controversy regarding the previous Mugen Souls has done some sort of damage, but guess what? NISA just announced the localization to the sequel, and they just announced that they're cutting out "questionable content", exactly as they did with the first game.

You know what it tells me? It doesn't tell me that enough people bought the title to support them in hopes that they'll change their minds about such content in the future.

You know what it tells me? It tells me is that in spite of all the controversy regarding the first Mugen Souls game, enough people were either ignorant, apathetic, or compromising about the issue to buy enough copies for NISA to justify localizing the sequel with the EXACT SAME APPROACH TO EDITING CONTENT. No progress was made, no further attempts at pushing their boundries achieved.

So according to your logic, if enough people bought the previous game with cut fanservice, why didn't it help bring the second title with its fanservice over? The answer: If they cut the fanservice and you keep supporting them, they'll just keep cutting the fanservice for other titles because you're telling them you're fine with it.

How the hell can you possibly convince a company that you object to the way they localize a title if you just happily give them your money for it? How the hell can you convince a company to push the limits with regards to content if you keep settling for cut content?

I'm not even going to bother going into a piece-by-piece arguement on just how ridiculous their fears/objections are regarding such content. If I do, I'll just end up bringing attention to them and risk giving them fucking merit. They may have their own principles, but I have mine--I don't give a shit about how underage a character may be or how objectionable the concept of engaging in a touching game may be to them, western society, the "government", Fox News, feminists or whatever other goddamned cookie-cutter tropes you want to throw out there. If you choose to localize something with objectionable content, you release the title as is or skip it altogether.


On a more positive note, it's these sorts of issues that reminds me of how hopeful I am with Idea Factory's plans to start their own localization branch here in the US.

They may understand how NISA may be uncomfortable with such content, but it doesn't mean they'll use the same approach to localization themselves. If they didn't have plans to localize it themselves, they're not going to miss a business opportunity to sell a license to one of their titles, even if it's not exactly how they would've localized it if they were at the helm.

If IF enters the market with a bolder approach to localizing games with questionable content, then I will have absolutely no issues jumping ship. Maybe the threat of free-market competition and the loss of the Neptunia series (and the Atelier series to TK) will convince NISA to act like they have some balls.

I'm just praying Idea Factory doesn't go the opposite direction and end up using MoeNovel's approach to localization.



And one more thing, stop trying to limit any discussion regarding the content cuts to a convenient thread that can be easily ignored, Rednal. If it's their choice to censor crap from a title, then it's our choice to be vocal about it.
Last edited by grgspunk on Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:40 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby bldudas » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:15 am

I'm glad the game is getting localized. And being a girl gamer I don't care about an optional bath tub mini game being left out. I only used the stat increasing hot springs in the first game twice.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Coreven » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:29 am

bldudas wrote:look at me im a grill and thats why im not standing up for the common good
Spoiler:
<Guyincognito> Very informative. I'm so glad there is a resource for info where threads stay on topic and don't instantly descend into pointless bullshit before dying
<Fir-Q> Otherwise known as Cor's Law.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Teddie Sage » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:41 am

Coreven wrote:
bldudas wrote:look at me im a grill and thats why im not standing up for the common good


Core, sorry to tell you, but this misogynistic behaviour is unacceptable.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Coreven » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:51 am

Teddie Sage wrote:Core, sorry to tell you, but this misogynistic behaviour is unacceptable.
Hello

Thank you for contacting Cor.

I have received your inquiry and will take measures I deem appropriate for the issue in question.
I appreciate your patience.

Best regards,
Coreven Customer Support Center
Spoiler:
<Guyincognito> Very informative. I'm so glad there is a resource for info where threads stay on topic and don't instantly descend into pointless bullshit before dying
<Fir-Q> Otherwise known as Cor's Law.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:00 am

By The Way...

This: http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.htm ... BK-1541233

It's the official artbook for the series, covering the first two games, and it includes all of the bathing minigame CG's. If you really want to see them, they're collected here in a lovely, thick book that also has lots of other art from the games (and even a lil' bit of Nep-Nep), and it's actually quite a fun buy. There's tons of alternate character designs 'n stuff, too. You'll have to import (unless somewhere like Kinokuniya has it), but... *Shrugs*


@Teddie: Coreven has already expressed a desire to troll and annoy people. ^^ Please just ignore it.



@Grgspunk: If you can't remain civil, then yes, I would ask you to hold off on speaking - it's not that I disagree with your right to speak your feelings or anything, but I do expect a minimal level of courtesy even if you're upset. However, since you're curious about my quote, please allow me to elaborate for you.

Consider Grand Theft Auto 5. That is not a game for children. The video game industry, as a whole, has gone increasingly towards the side of graphic, mature, and otherwise adult content over time; it used to be that a little bit of blood was shocking, and now we have games where it literally fountains out of enemies. The gaming industry is often pushing the limits; they really are, and there's no indication of that changing anytime soon. Simple history, here.

I know that buying a game in order to promote a lack of editing sounds counter-intuitive. However, that doesn't make it less true - when you buy the game, you help to demonstrate that there is a market for the product. We're dealing with businesses, here, and they want profit. If something is more profitable, they'll make more things like it and work harder to leave it unedited. If stuff doesn't sell, then they won't want to make more of it for the simple reason that they're not making money. That's how businesses are. If you truly want your content unmodified, you should buy the games. That will actually help, and we may get to the point where society is accepting enough that no changes will be needed. However, that's never going to happen if we don't take the steps to get there... and we'll never take those steps if companies are too afraid to push the boundaries. ^^

As Houk very kindly explained in the opening post, the edits to Mugen Souls do not reflect a broader company philosophy of looking to edit content. They know people don't like it, which is why they do as little as they feel is necessary - and often none at all. It doesn't really benefit them to edit the content more than they need to because, again, they are a business. As you say, it's voting with your dollars - in this case, voting for the idea that particular content is good and they should try to bring over more of it. Punishing them just makes them want to avoid controversial content. That's how businesses work. If you object to Mugen Souls Z because of minor content edits, then what you're actually saying is "Please do not even try to bring over objectionable content and stick to tame material". If you want more fanservice, buying the game helps more than boycotting it. ^^ Still a little counter-intuitive, but it's important to look at this from the perspective of a business (which is very different from the perspective of a consumer).


I hope that clarification helps you understand why I'm holding this position. ^^
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby dust10 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:16 am

Rednal wrote:By The Way...

This: http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.htm ... BK-1541233

It's the official artbook for the series, covering the first two games, and it includes all of the bathing minigame CG's. If you really want to see them, they're collected here in a lovely, thick book that also has lots of other art from the games (and even a lil' bit of Nep-Nep), and it's actually quite a fun buy. There's tons of alternate character designs 'n stuff, too. You'll have to import (unless somewhere like Kinokuniya has it), but... *Shrugs*


Yeah but those are small as hell pictures :( nothing like when you see it in a big HDTV (then screenshot save it to your computer lol).

So yeah can you answer my question of if they can just insert the bathing CGs into the CG viewer?

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:23 am

They're not that small in the book... and I think they take up a good third-to-half of the darn thing, too.. XD

In the first post, Houk explained that it was the minigame and associated CG images, so they probably won't be in the gallery. If I had my 'druthers, I'd ask for them to just take out the little girls and leave the images of everyone else in the viewer, but that may be impractical (programming is rarely as simple/easy as it seems like it should be). So... the images probably won't remain in the viewer. Though they could still surprise us, I guess. XD
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby JaxTH » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:28 am

Rednal wrote: If you object to Mugen Souls Z because of minor content edits, then what you're actually saying is "Please do not even try to bring over objectionable content and stick to tame material".

This makes no sense.

The first game was edited so it could become "tame material". Then everyone proceeded to not buy it.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Coreven » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:29 am

Rednal wrote:If I had my 'druthers, I'd ask for them to just take out the little girls and leave the images of everyone else in the viewer

Give me one good reason they should only take out the little girls and leave the older ones be. They are all the same. Drawings.
Spoiler:
<Guyincognito> Very informative. I'm so glad there is a resource for info where threads stay on topic and don't instantly descend into pointless bullshit before dying
<Fir-Q> Otherwise known as Cor's Law.


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