MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here-)

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:54 pm

Seventh wrote:Er. Source for what? Did XSEED release Monpiece, even after CH went asking for someone to localize it? Has XSEED released any games with content similar to what's been removed here (based on the age-based hypothetical I mentioned)? You don't need sources for these things. Look at their releases.

Ah, okay. Now I have a bit of a better idea as to what you mean.
And my response is that XSEED is a much smaller company. They have quite the number of localizations ongoing as we speak. So even then, they really couldn't do it due to how much they had in their hands (and still do). Plus, I may be wrong, but wasn't IFI already created by the time Monster Monpiece was released? Wouldn't that sorta make it a bit more restrictive on a copyright standpoint given the parent company relationship that entails? Mean that as an actual question.

Seventh wrote:And choosing "no localization" is an incredibly selfish thing to say, by the way. :| Jesus.

I'd rather have no localization than one that almost outright slanders the source material.
Feel free to call me selfish, but hey.

Rednal wrote:So... just out of curiosity, Screwy, how would you define a game being localized "perfectly"?

When a company basically tries their damndest to translate a game as faithfully as possible unless there's something that can't be translated 1:1. No, I don't mean literal translations that include Japanese structuring. I mean a translation that is a faithful transfer to the structuring of the English language while not changing it's original meaning. An unfaithful translation is changing names or adding things to pre-existing lines that weren't in the original Japanese script (One example is the name change of the protagonist in Tales of Hearts R, or the name changes in various Jojo localizations (though the Jojo changes are valid due to the originals infringing on copyright)).

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:06 pm

What if the original meaning would make no sense in English if translated faithfully, or makes some kind of joke/reference that the target audience simply wouldn't understand?

Also, how do you feel about the fact that localized scripts have to be approved by the original creators, effectively making them what the developers want you to see? That's a question that I haven't heard too many people answer, and I'm honestly curious about the responses...
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Corey214 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:07 pm

Rednal wrote:So... just out of curiosity, Screwy, how would you define a game being localized "perfectly"?

Do you bully people who complain about a game being edited for monetary gain?

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:14 pm

Do you plan to seriously consider any answer I might give and recognize the fact that some people view things in a different manner than you do and have a very different opinion about what happened here and why? If yes, I'd be happy to answer in any level of detail you'd like.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:15 pm

Rednal wrote:What if the original meaning would make no sense in English if translated faithfully, or makes some kind of joke/reference that the target audience simply wouldn't understand?

Then lightly tweaking it to actually make sense isn't a cardinal sin or anything, but it should still fit in the original context. My point is that translators shouldn't deviate too far from the original work it's based off.

Rednal wrote:Also, how do you feel about the fact that localized scripts have to be approved by the original creators, effectively making them what the developers want you to see? That's a question that I haven't heard too many people answer, and I'm honestly curious about the responses...

I feel that should be regular procedure at this point. A great example is with Aksys and Zero Escape. They kept some solid contact with Kotaro Uchikoshi, the writer of the game, because Uchikoshi loved his work, and he wanted to make sure Aksys kept their localization as faithful to the original games (999 as well as Virtue's Last Reward) as possible. He even said they did an amazing job when asked about it in the VLR Q&A.

OH! And quick edit. One thing I forgot to touch on (that I think Rednal was expecting me to explain about) was the Genocider edit in DanganRonpa. Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of that change, but it makes sense to see why. I mean, the original was a reference to a famous Japanese serial killer, and since most people wouldn't understand (and explaining the reference would be rather "clunky"), the change to a famous Western serial killer makes more sense to switch to, rather than completely replacing it. Though the change from "DID" to "SCHIZO" in the Chapter 2 Flashing Anagram was really stupid. Please never make a decision like that again, as that's actually incorrect.
Last edited by Screwy on Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Seventh » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:22 pm

Rednal wrote:Also, how do you feel about the fact that localized scripts have to be approved by the original creators, effectively making them what the developers want you to see? That's a question that I haven't heard too many people answer, and I'm honestly curious about the responses...

I honestly never see why this is used as such a damning question. Chances are the developers are more trusting the localization company based on the company's resume or success than actually going through the script and comparing it line for line, as might be done in an ideal but incredibly time consuming and potentially costly situation. There's also no telling if the developers would understand the new references that had been put in place of the old. So sure, the devs might have signed off on it, but that doesn't necessarily mean much of anything, really (that's not to say it means nothing either, but still) - I mean, genuinely bad localizations still happen from time to time (not necessarily here, but in general) and the companies obviously would have had to sign off then too.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:29 pm

@Screwy: Well, the same thing happens in NISA's games. Actually, I asked them about this - essentially, Idea Factory and Compile Heart have veto power over everything that happens. They actually have someone on their own staff who can understand the English script and help them decide whether they're okay with it or not. I know that I may not be getting the exact script the Japanese did when I buy a localized game, but... knowing I'm getting the script the developers wanted me to see tends to stop my fears about "changing their vision" and so on.

Random Factoid: Occasionally, limitations in the game engine mean they literally cannot match things properly, no matter how much they want to, so a change HAS to be made. It is pretty weird, but that's programming for you. I'm hoping that future engines will be able to iron out this issue.


@Seventh: It doesn't actually take very long to read through a game's script. *Shrugs* The fact that NISA's scripts have very consistently entertained me also means they've earned a level of trust from me. It's true, bad translations CAN happen... but in the end, my goal is to enjoy myself and have fun, and I'm basically in favor of anything that lets me have more fun. I won't hesitate to call them on it if I honestly think something could have been done better (i.e. Esty Dee), but I don't really care about minor changes in a script as long as the overall game is still entertaining. I just... don't.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:34 pm

Rednal wrote:Random Factoid: Occasionally, limitations in the game engine mean they literally cannot match things properly, no matter how much they want to, so a change HAS to be made. It is pretty weird, but that's programming for you. I'm hoping that future engines will be able to iron out this issue.


I knew about this, and I will admit that's not the localization team's fault. But I think that, if they can find an alternative that stays close to the original AND their previous idea, as well as works on a technical standpoint, then by all means, do that.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Seventh » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:37 pm

@Red
Well, now you're getting into more subjective stuff here, which is veering off into a completely different conversation, I think.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:40 pm

@Screwy: Generally speaking, they do. ^^

@Seventh: Could be, yeah. :lol: It's... a complicated subject for me.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Seventh » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:42 pm

I'd venture to say it's complicated for most. :P
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:48 pm

Oh yeah, and for any NISA reps looking at this, please hear me out. If Soul Nomad ever gets a Vita port from NIS themselves, and if you guys localize it, for the love of god keep the PS2 script intact, and if there's bonus content in this hypothetical port, try to at least keep it true to the original script. I love Soul Nomad, and it got an amazing localization back in 2007. I don't want to see it get altered heavily, especially given how it handled the dark content of the game.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Houk » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:18 pm

Screwy wrote:Oh yeah, and for any NISA reps looking at this, please hear me out. If Soul Nomad ever gets a Vita port from NIS themselves, and if you guys localize it, for the love of god keep the PS2 script intact, and if there's bonus content in this hypothetical port, try to at least keep it true to the original script. I love Soul Nomad, and it got an amazing localization back in 2007. I don't want to see it get altered heavily, especially given how it handled the dark content of the game.


I'm actually the one who did the edit for that and it's one of my very favorite games I've ever worked on, so you definitely don't have anything to worry about there.

Well, except for the fact that as far as I know nothing like that is in the works.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:14 pm

Houk wrote:Well, except for the fact that as far as I know nothing like that is in the works.

Yeah, I know. But according to Siliconera, there was a poll in Japan a while back about games that people would like to see get a portable version. The Top 3 from what I can recall were Disgaea 3 (got a Vita port), Makai Kingdom (got a PSP port in Japan), and Soul Nomad (no news yet).
So maybe there's hope.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:21 pm

They may make more ports in the future, but it's best to make specific requests after they're announced. Personally, I'm hoping that the PS4's architecture will allow more ports to PC for future games, buuuuuut I think we're starting to get off-topic again. Does anyone else have more questions/concerns/urges to vent on this subject, or are we done until the next round? :lol:
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