MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here-)

Mugen Mugen! Rock the Mugen! Mugen Souls Z!
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BDSMKane
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby BDSMKane » Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:37 pm

Rednal wrote:Also, how do you feel about the fact that localized scripts have to be approved by the original creators, effectively making them what the developers want you to see? That's a question that I haven't heard too many people answer, and I'm honestly curious about the responses...

It's honestly a bit of a silly question, and it's been mentioned before on these forums. The first reason it's silly is your question has two conflicting questions in it. The first question is: "How do you feel about the fact that localized scripts have to be approved by the original creators?". The second question is: "Do you think having the original creators approve the localized scripts is a sign that it is what the developers want you to see?". The answers are 1) "They are a business after all." ~every fan defender on these forums, and 2) No, of course not, that's absurd.

They're giving creative authority to the localization company for a price, nothing more, nothing less. Just because they give approval on a script doesn't mean it's how they wanted it to be. If they wanted it to be that way, they would of done it that way the first time. This isn't a Lucas situation where it can be claimed that they simply didn't have the technology or the money at the time of the original release to make it the way they wanted to, we're talking about changing words around or removing content, stuff that would of been simple to do during the months or development.
BDSMKane wrote:A defective product was released by NIS America on March 25, 2014.....and any support for that product is(by all appearances) non-existent. That's the core issue, and it reeks of poor business ethics.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:04 pm

Oh yeah, and one more request. If you bring over Criminal Girls Invitation, DON'T ALTER IT. I'm absolutely begging you. I know I'm coming off as monotones, but I can NOT stress this enough. I'm not trying to place a stereotype. I'm just saying that Criminal Girls is a touchy game, and I don't want it to get censored in any way.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby BDSMKane » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:05 pm

Screwy wrote:Oh yeah, and one more request. If you bring over Criminal Girls Invitation, DON'T ALTER IT. I'm absolutely begging you. I know I'm coming off as monotones, but I can NOT stress this enough. I'm not trying to place a stereotype. I'm just saying that Criminal Girls is a touchy game, and I don't want it to get censored in any way.

You're too late.
BDSMKane wrote:A defective product was released by NIS America on March 25, 2014.....and any support for that product is(by all appearances) non-existent. That's the core issue, and it reeks of poor business ethics.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:18 pm

BDSMKane wrote:You're too late.

Wait, it's getting censored?
Oh come on.
I'm getting word that it's for broadening the audience.
Okay, lemme exhaust my thoughts on the matter, and hopefully get some sense into the team.
First off, re-read my earlier posts on the topic of raw censorship.
Now, after you do that, consider the MASSIVE boycott on Mugen Souls.
After that, look at the Limited Edition for MS. It's still in stock. After nearly two bloody years.
If you intentionally change content to broaden the audience for an already niche game, you are only hurting multiple groups. The sales will bomb because you alienated the core fanbase of niche titles like this.
The other parts of the audience you wish to attract still won't find the game appealing, and the people that actually ASK for censorship never play the games they complain about (see: multiple modern-day feminism groups). Censorship only hurts the majority and helps the fraction of the minority. Please. If you're actually listening, STOP CENSORING THE GAME. RESTORE THE CUT CONTENT. Especially since a game like this is heavily reliant on fanservice. It's going to be like the original MS where multiple CG were cut, thus really hurting the game as a whole.
I'm probably not going to change anything, but if I do, then I'm immediately preordering the game as soon as possible. Please, NISA. Don't make a huge mistake.

EDIT: Also, to add to all this, leaving the game uncensored will generate publicity, which, in cases like Senran Kagura Burst, gave (pre)orders a TREMENDOUS boost. You just need to keep everything as it is, and let the outcry do the opposite of it's intentions, as well as not take anything from the complainers, because they don't support your games anyway.
Last edited by Screwy on Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Mystere » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:34 pm

Neither Mugen Souls game lost anything of value or import to the censors, though. Just caused a lot of whining on the NISA boards and still sold well enough to bring Souls Z over. Also what massive boycott? Do you mean like a few hundred posts on this tiny message board? Just like everything else NISA does, the games still sell well enough despite whatever issues they have to keep the company going.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Seventh » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:38 pm

Mystere wrote:Neither Mugen Souls game lost anything of value or import to the censors, though. Just caused a lot of whining on the NISA boards and still sold well enough to bring Souls Z over. Also what massive boycott? Do you mean like a few hundred posts on this tiny message board? Just like everything else NISA does, the games still sell well enough despite whatever issues they have to keep the company going.

One could argue the LEs took so long to sell because the "niche fans" weren't buying it in the way they might have had it been left alone.

One could also argue that less people wanted the game in general. Or maybe the LE offerings weren't enticing.

It's a possibility though, I guess.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby BDSMKane » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:39 pm

Screwy, you're wasting your time, sorry. If you still want to keep wasting your time(or in my case, venting rage), have at it. Just don't expect anything to change. These titles sell, censored or uncensored. The NISA representatives have posted numerous times explaining the decisions, right or wrong, and the fans here bicker about it; while the majority of people don't know and just buy the game anyway if it looks interesting. It's pretty apparent at this point in time that NISA will choose censorship if they think it's the most prudent path, and that is a company policy, and it's their choice to proceed in such a way.
BDSMKane wrote:A defective product was released by NIS America on March 25, 2014.....and any support for that product is(by all appearances) non-existent. That's the core issue, and it reeks of poor business ethics.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:41 pm

Seventh wrote:
Mystere wrote:Neither Mugen Souls game lost anything of value or import to the censors, though. Just caused a lot of whining on the NISA boards and still sold well enough to bring Souls Z over. Also what massive boycott? Do you mean like a few hundred posts on this tiny message board? Just like everything else NISA does, the games still sell well enough despite whatever issues they have to keep the company going.

One could argue the LEs took so long to sell because the "niche fans" weren't buying it in the way they might have had it been left alone.

One could also argue that less people wanted the game in general. Or maybe the LE offerings weren't enticing.

It's a possibility though, I guess.


Not trying to come off as a smartass, but Time and Eternity, a game that I don't recall getting a lot of requests, sold more than Mugen Souls, and T&E, for most people, was of a lower quality than MS, so to speak.

BDSMKane wrote:Screwy, you're wasting your time, sorry. If you still want to keep wasting your time(or in my case, venting rage), have at it. Just don't expect anything to change. These titles sell, censored or uncensored. The NISA representatives have posted numerous times explaining the decisions, right or wrong, and the fans here bicker about it; while the majority of people don't know and just buy the game anyway if it looks interesting. It's pretty apparent at this point in time that NISA will choose censorship if they think it's the most prudent path, and that is a company policy, and it's their choice to proceed in such a way.

But that's the problem. If the outcry stops, then it's usually seen as a sort of surrender. What we actually need is more people to convince NISA that this is a bad business practice.
Last edited by Screwy on Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Seventh » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:42 pm

Well, if I were making the argument for the boycotting, that might be something I would bring up then. :lol:
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Alice Twilight » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:08 pm

Rednal wrote:Thank you for that very comprehensive explanation, Houk. ^^ I know that not everyone agrees with the decisions NISA makes, but you're right - that's probably inevitable... and I'm one of those fans who's very happy with the choices NISA has made in terms of localization decisions. After all, it was those choices that made me a fan in the first place!


"Thank you for cutting out parts of the game, Nisa, its what made me a fan!"
This post makes you sound like a shill, dude...

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby ArmyofDarkness » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:13 pm

Alice Twilight wrote:
Rednal wrote:Thank you for that very comprehensive explanation, Houk. ^^ I know that not everyone agrees with the decisions NISA makes, but you're right - that's probably inevitable... and I'm one of those fans who's very happy with the choices NISA has made in terms of localization decisions. After all, it was those choices that made me a fan in the first place!


"Thank you for cutting out parts of the game, Nisa, its what made me a fan!"
This post makes you sound like a shill, dude...

I think he's a game journalist or something. So Take that in account.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Rednal » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:20 pm

Well, I was mostly referring to the scripts, but it's not like I totally object to them also removing the parts of games that flat-out bored me... though I do feel it's a bit unfortunate for those who wanted to play those parts anyway. It's not like I'm happy with every decision they've ever made, either - just most of them. In this case, the minigame did not entertain me at all, so I don't see its removal as a loss... particularly since they kept a lot of the CGs in. *Shrugs* Either way, that's just how I feel, and I see no reason to pretend otherwise. I play games solely for my own amusement - on general principles, I support things that increase my level of entertainment and oppose things that decrease it.
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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby makenocent » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:21 pm

Here's my 2 cent.

Censorship really does nothing besides shut up social justice warriors and feminsts. They're just there to make a big fuss over it. I would say they bark the loudest, but they would never buy these games in the first place regardless of censorship or not.
However.... when they make a big fuss, all it does it help more people notice the game. Sort of a free advertisement and helps promote the game. Let me throw out two examples. 1. Senran Kagura Burst. 2. Dragon Crown. Both of those games were targets of feminists and sjw. And those two games sold very well.

Censorship also has a negative impact on the fans that would actually buy the game in the first place. It splits the fans. You piss off half the fans that would actually buy these type of games. Some would start boycotting censored games. Others might still buy it, but you lose their trust.

While I cannot comment on the sales of Mugen Souls because I don't know the sales, I can say that it is one of the only games I know on the nisa store where the limited edition has been there forever. I, myself actually decided not to buy Mugen Souls because it was censored. And I have actually brought every other Nisa game out there since the PS2 days.

In short, censorship does not help sales at all. You can't change the minds of people who hate these type of games from the start by censoring the game and getting a T rating. They weren't going to buy these type of games in the first place, nor will they do so after it's censored. They're just here to make a big fuss about it. Meanwhile you piss off your one and only fanbase that would buy these type of games.

Criminal Girls is not really the type of game where normal people would go and just buy casually like it's a shooter or action adventure. It's a niche. Only the niche fanbase would buy these games. You have to be into anime and this stuff to even consider buying it. I think it's fool's errand to try and appeal this game to a bigger audience at the risk of losing your core fanbase. I believe you have more to lose by censoring it than not censoring it. I, myself will also not buy this game if it's censored.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby Screwy » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:25 pm

makenocent wrote:Here's my 2 cent.

Censorship really does nothing besides shut up social justice warriors and feminsts. They're just there to make a big fuss over it. I would say they bark the loudest, but they would never buy these games in the first place regardless of censorship or not.
However.... when they make a big fuss, all it does it help more people notice the game. Sort of a free advertisement and helps promote the game. Let me throw out two examples. 1. Senran Kagura Burst. 2. Dragon Crown. Both of those games were targets of feminists and sjw. And those two games sold very well.

Censorship also has a negative impact on the fans that would actually buy the game in the first place. It splits the fans. You piss off half the fans that would actually buy these type of games. Some would start boycotting censored games. Others might still buy it, but you lose their trust.

While I cannot comment on the sales of Mugen Souls because I don't know the sales, I can say that it is one of the only games I know on the nisa store where the limited edition has been there forever. I, myself actually decided not to buy Mugen Souls because it was censored. And I have actually brought every other Nisa game out there since the PS2 days.

In short, censorship does not help sales at all. You can't change the minds of people who hate these type of games from the start by censoring the game and getting a T rating. They weren't going to buy these type of games in the first place, nor will they do so after it's censored. They're just here to make a big fuss about it. Meanwhile you piss off your one and only fanbase that would buy these type of games.

Criminal Girls is not really the type of game where normal people would go and just buy casually like it's a shooter or action adventure. It's a niche. Only the niche fanbase would buy these games. You have to be into anime and this stuff to even consider buying it. I think it's fool's errand to try and appeal this game to a bigger audience at the risk of losing your core fanbase. I believe you have more to lose by censoring it than not censoring it. I, myself will also not buy this game if it's censored.


This is literally my thoughts on the matter. Censorship, especially for games like this, only give reception ranging from neutral to absolutely negative.

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Re: MSZ Content Editing Discussion Thread (Please Post -Here

Postby BDSMKane » Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:34 pm

Alice Twilight wrote:
Rednal wrote:Thank you for that very comprehensive explanation, Houk. ^^ I know that not everyone agrees with the decisions NISA makes, but you're right - that's probably inevitable... and I'm one of those fans who's very happy with the choices NISA has made in terms of localization decisions. After all, it was those choices that made me a fan in the first place!


"Thank you for cutting out parts of the game, Nisa, its what made me a fan!"
This post makes you sound like a shill, dude...

Rednal has a very strong pro-NISA stance, and it's very obvious and has been commented on numerous times. That being said, Rednal is also an old fan of NISA as well, back when their games came with nearly complete dubs(compared to 40% or less), and their games were released with a first print LE bonus that had all of the same content we get now but at the old MSRP for new game releases(instead of costing $15+ more), and their games were supported post-release with feedback and/or patches(instead of being shrugged off because an employee left the company), and their games were given the full content from the original release(instead of having things removed because they weren't willing to work the budget or timeline to attempt to give intact releases).

It's understandable that things have dipped a bit in recent years though. I'm sure that being a successful company that is expanding is too strenuous to allow for the same quality and customer care that contributed to their profit and popularity in the first place. But businesses grow and businesses change, that is just the way it is, and even EA still has die hard fans and makes substantial profit on a yearly basis.
BDSMKane wrote:A defective product was released by NIS America on March 25, 2014.....and any support for that product is(by all appearances) non-existent. That's the core issue, and it reeks of poor business ethics.


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