Localization Discussion

Official forum of this turn-based RPG for the PS3
User avatar
lopez
Mid-Boss
Mid-Boss
Posts: 17771
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: at school silly :p
Contact:

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby lopez » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:51 pm

I don't understand why some people like to use the term "butchered" so loosely. It's not like this is Lux-Pain quality changes.

And no more derogatory slang.
Image

shadowmaksim
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 4344
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:11 am

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby shadowmaksim » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:57 pm

I guess to some people, that is exactly what it seems like. Unless it can be played exactly like the original (JP voice and all), it's butchered.

I wholeheartedly disagree but that's only me. Opinions are opinions. Can't do much about them unfortunately.

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Seventh » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:00 pm

lopez wrote:I don't understand why some people like to use the term "butchered" so loosely. It's not like this is Lux-Pain quality changes.

At that point I think the issue isn't an issue of butchered or not, much how much more it is compared to something else.

There being something worse than Thing A out there doesn't mean Thing A still isn't bad, essentially.
Image

User avatar
lopez
Mid-Boss
Mid-Boss
Posts: 17771
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: at school silly :p
Contact:

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby lopez » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:08 pm

shadowmaksim wrote:I guess to some people, that is exactly what it seems like. Unless it can be played exactly like the original (JP voice and all), it's butchered.

I wholeheartedly disagree but that's only me. Opinions are opinions. Can't do much about them unfortunately.


That's pretty extreme.

Opinions matter when there's some weigh behind them.

Seventh wrote:
lopez wrote:I don't understand why some people like to use the term "butchered" so loosely. It's not like this is Lux-Pain quality changes.

At that point I think the issue isn't an issue of butchered or not, much how much more it is compared to something else.

There being something worse than Thing A out there doesn't mean Thing A still isn't bad, essentially.


I'm sure most "hardcore" gamers would get the point, regardless if it's the worst of the worst.
Image

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Seventh » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:12 pm

I'm not sure what you're saying there - the presumed point being made in the game, or the point being made by the comment?

Either way, I don't see why you need to put a label on it. I argue the points I do because I find it a matter of creative integrity and wanting to play the game I'm buying as opposed to an overly liberal localization team's fan fiction (not referring to anyone in particular there with this, more a general view on things).
Image

User avatar
Ultimate_Nova_X
Netherworld Marquis
Netherworld Marquis
Posts: 1706
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Taiwan/Canada

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Ultimate_Nova_X » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:16 pm

lopez wrote:I don't understand why some people like to use the term "butchered" so loosely. It's not like this is Lux-Pain quality changes.

And no more derogatory slang.

The reason why people, including me, use the term butchered is because the products that they come out with shows very questionable integrity behind the decision of localizing the product.

That's pretty extreme.

As I've stated many times, wanting to play the same game (minus the language-barrier of course) as our Asian brethren isn't extreme at all.

Edited this post, again, my apologies for my ignorance, I will not use the term in question again.

Houk
Netherworld Duke
Netherworld Duke
Posts: 2532
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Houk » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:40 pm

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:As I've stated many times, wanting to play the same game (minus the language-barrier of course) as our Asian brethren isn't extreme at all.


The mere fact that it's translated means you're already not playing the same game. No matter how faithful the translation is (in whatever way you define the idea of "faithful") the simple act of changing the language has a fundamental impact on how you experience that media, and that's before even taking in cultural separation and dissonance.

It's fine if you want minimal changes, but you'd probably be better off just forgetting the idea of getting the "same" game, because it's literally impossible.

User avatar
Ultimate_Nova_X
Netherworld Marquis
Netherworld Marquis
Posts: 1706
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Taiwan/Canada

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Ultimate_Nova_X » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:48 pm

Houk wrote:The mere fact that it's translated means you're already not playing the same game. No matter how faithful the translation is (in whatever way you define the idea of "faithful") the simple act of changing the language has a fundamental impact on how you experience that media, and that's before even taking in cultural separation and dissonance.

It's fine if you want minimal changes, but you'd probably be better off just forgetting the idea of getting the "same" game, because it's literally impossible.


You're acting on despair, you're saying that because it's impossible to make same game, we might as well drive things down backwards altogether.

If it can't be helped, then it can't be helped, we make the most of it. What you're saying is if one aspect can't be helped, then we treat all aspects as can't be helped, when in reality, there are many other aspects of keeping the game's localization faithful that could be helped.

User avatar
Daverost
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 8451
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:50 pm
Location: Georgia, U.S.A.

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Daverost » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:13 am

Houk wrote:
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:As I've stated many times, wanting to play the same game (minus the language-barrier of course) as our Asian brethren isn't extreme at all.


The mere fact that it's translated means you're already not playing the same game. No matter how faithful the translation is (in whatever way you define the idea of "faithful") the simple act of changing the language has a fundamental impact on how you experience that media, and that's before even taking in cultural separation and dissonance.

It's fine if you want minimal changes, but you'd probably be better off just forgetting the idea of getting the "same" game, because it's literally impossible.


I'm sorry (I'm not really), but that's a God-awful counter-argument.
I never got my avatars.
Still holding my breath for the other Marl Kingdom games.

Houk
Netherworld Duke
Netherworld Duke
Posts: 2532
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Houk » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:08 pm

Daverost wrote:
Houk wrote:
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:As I've stated many times, wanting to play the same game (minus the language-barrier of course) as our Asian brethren isn't extreme at all.


The mere fact that it's translated means you're already not playing the same game. No matter how faithful the translation is (in whatever way you define the idea of "faithful") the simple act of changing the language has a fundamental impact on how you experience that media, and that's before even taking in cultural separation and dissonance.

It's fine if you want minimal changes, but you'd probably be better off just forgetting the idea of getting the "same" game, because it's literally impossible.


I'm sorry (I'm not really), but that's a God-awful counter-argument.


It's not intended as a counterargument. I'm just pointing out that the desire to have "the same game" is impossible. It's framing the discussion in a way that simply doesn't work. It's never going to be the same game - the change in language changes the experience in a fundamental way. That doesn't mean that everything can just go out the window and anything goes, of course, but it's just not possible to have the same experience when the language changes, no matter how close you stick to the original. So if that's your standard of quality, you're always going to be disappointed.

User avatar
Ultimate_Nova_X
Netherworld Marquis
Netherworld Marquis
Posts: 1706
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Taiwan/Canada

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Ultimate_Nova_X » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:10 pm

That doesn't mean that everything can just go out the window and anything goes, of course,


However, your actual arguments imply, if not, outright state the otherwise, and your products show that.

User avatar
St0ck
Majin
Majin
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:31 pm

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby St0ck » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:04 pm

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:
That doesn't mean that everything can just go out the window and anything goes, of course,


However, your actual arguments imply, if not, outright state the otherwise, and your products show that.


Words of wisdom coming from Nova X, the guy who is arguing NISA does a bad job at translations.
Image

shadowmaksim
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 4344
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:11 am

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby shadowmaksim » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:38 pm

St0ck wrote:
Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:
That doesn't mean that everything can just go out the window and anything goes, of course,


However, your actual arguments imply, if not, outright state the otherwise, and your products show that.


Words of wisdom coming from Nova X, the guy who is arguing NISA does a bad job at translations.


While I fully disagree with Ultimate_Nova_X in this matter, there's no benefit in starting to point fingers and making accusations. No one wins in cases like that.

Houk
Netherworld Duke
Netherworld Duke
Posts: 2532
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:52 am

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Houk » Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:58 pm

Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:
That doesn't mean that everything can just go out the window and anything goes, of course,


However, your actual arguments imply, if not, outright state the otherwise, and your products show that.


This is why people call you extreme. If you honestly think our standard operating procedure is to throw the original text out the window and do whatever we want - as in, that is our standard philosophy and not the exception, then that is an extreme viewpoint to take, and is certainly untrue.

While we might not always adhere to what you might consider the literal translation (which is itself a subjective term) we certainly do our best to adhere as closely as possible to the spirit of the original. At times we have strayed from that to our detriment, but it's not our standard approach.

If, for example, you're opposed to anything but the most literal rendering of a character's name exactly as pronounced/written in the original Japanese, regardless of how those names are perceived by English speakers, then yeah, I can see why you wouldn't see eye-to-eye with our approach. But I absolutely believe that there are times in which changing a character's name might lead it away from the literal but also leads it much close to the actual intent of the original.

User avatar
Seventh
Netherworld Grand Duke
Netherworld Grand Duke
Posts: 29268
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:49 pm
Location: Zawame City

Re: Localization Discussion

Postby Seventh » Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:09 pm

To be fair, I think he's referring to more than the name changes. This topic seems to have shifted back and forth from "general localization" to "FFF localization."

That's all I'll say for now though - as I've said, unless I'm shown anything to make me think otherwise (namely if I hear any possible toku references got cut! hint hint!!), TDA gave me faith in how this is being handled for the most part, at least as far as the dialogue goes, so I can live with some name changes if that part of the game is okay. :geek:
Image


Return to “Fairy Fencer F”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests