Should the Next Disgaea game have a Female Lead?

[dood]

It would be funny to have a girle main character like Rozalin only without the occasional bitchyness

But I like the bitchyness!

[railar]

Oh how quickly people can get offended over here. It's sad, really.

But I can see how much thought would have to be put just to make sure it doesn't touch anyone's buttons in terms on how a female is supposed to act as a lead, or how she cannot act or that will raise flags and then the attention will shift to NIS(A). If that route had a chance of happening, then NIS(A) could just make the female a tomboy-ish character with extremely rough edges and predictable character development just to play it extremely on the safe side. I personally think that would be a rather boring way to present it; and that they should push the envelope and make the character how they want to.

There have been many female characters, and a good number leads, but in certain games that were appropriate for them (Neptunia, Phantom Brave, La Pucelle, etc.) And I see how it would be out of place with a series like Disgaea being a male dominated game. A couple female side characters and even fewer female custom characters, guys take the cake here. But the more I think about it the more refreshing it sounds to have something a little different other than the couple mechanic tweaks and a couple new additions, with some bonus content. A story not revolved around specifically becoming, or defeating an overlord type figure, and go more along the lines of being unwillingly drawn into that form of scenario. To save the extreme bashing the creators would take from "changing the game too much".

Like getting sucked into a netherworld war, and fighting not to win, but just to escape the hell she was thrown into and escaping somewhere that is more at peace; but you never know that never works out too well and is either forced to join a side, rebel against both and become the "hero(ine)" and save/rule the netherworld, or any other multiple endings that could come from that.

This is all, of course, just my opinion and it matters not to me what scenario happens to come about since I love the game series for what it is and will find something to love about it. Whether it is the story, the new additions, etc. etc. I would be happy that a 5 did come out XD. But that's my super wall post of absolute nonsense~ All in all, female character = just please don't conform her to generic boringness. I mean, look at Asagi XD. Completely weird and still so many people like her.

[dood]

Oh how quickly people can get offended over here. It's sad, really.

But I can see how much thought would have to be put just to make sure it doesn't touch anyone's buttons in terms on how a female is supposed to act as a lead, or how she cannot act or that will raise flags and then the attention will shift to NIS(A). If that route had a chance of happening, then NIS(A) could just make the female a tomboy-ish character with extremely rough edges and predictable character development just to play it extremely on the safe side. I personally think that would be a rather boring way to present it; and that they should push the envelope and make the character how they want to.

There have been many female characters, and a good number leads, but in certain games that were appropriate for them (Neptunia, Phantom Brave, La Pucelle, etc.) And I see how it would be out of place with a series like Disgaea being a male dominated game. A couple female side characters and even fewer female custom characters, guys take the cake here. But the more I think about it the more refreshing it sounds to have something a little different other than the couple mechanic tweaks and a couple new additions, with some bonus content. A story not revolved around specifically becoming, or defeating an overlord type figure, and go more along the lines of being unwillingly drawn into that form of scenario. To save the extreme bashing the creators would take from "changing the game too much".

Like getting sucked into a netherworld war, and fighting not to win, but just to escape the hell she was thrown into and escaping somewhere that is more at peace; but you never know that never works out too well and is either forced to join a side, rebel against both and become the "hero(ine)" and save/rule the netherworld, or any other multiple endings that could come from that.

This is all, of course, just my opinion and it matters not to me what scenario happens to come about since I love the game series for what it is and will find something to love about it. Whether it is the story, the new additions, etc. etc. I would be happy that a 5 did come out XD. But that's my super wall post of absolute nonsense~ All in all, female character = just please don't conform her to generic boringness. I mean, look at Asagi XD. Completely weird and still so many people like her.

See in other words, when it comes to Disgaea guys are better in every aspect except not really (I just don't want a femal lead.

[LordLaharlsVassal]

Oh so true! I just like having male leads as long as they are at least some what relatable (Maybe that's why I wasn't a fan of D1).

I love D1 because I relate so much to the characters, but everyone is different and will relate to different things so it is no surprise.

So you wouldn't be interested in seeing a heroine take an hour to 'get ready' before each battle, or ask the other characters if her outfit makes her look fat?

Only if it convey/reinforce something about the character, like for example; “She is really insecure about her appearance because her worthiness as a female has always been measured by amount of beauty she has at any given time, and that is reason why she always pushes herself to look her very best no matter what.”

snip

Yes vampko people are different, but not all women are girly and not all men are manly, the same is true the other way around and most are a bit of both. A story should tell us what societal pressures a character has to deal with how they respond to them and why they do so, not just have them be manly or girly just because they can.

Her is a video where professionals talk about how female characters should differ from males: http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/tr ... characters

I strongly recommend you give it a look because I think if NIS do it this way they will not have to deal with much controversy.

[railar]

I see. But all in all that is still another person(s) personal opinion. There isn't someone who can say that they are giving a totally "unbiased" opinion (or review) when it comes to a fictional character lead. Male or female. There are some difference made key on there that I agree with. But Personal say will always differ from person to person. A "professional's" view on a matter like this will always only adhere to the people who actually agree with it; and there are many who may think that their opinion, or 'review, study, etc' is wrong, in sorts.

So I can see where they can take points and use those to help them with how they want their character. But NIS never really went along with the "standard" for how character personality/make-up "should be". They just do their own thing really, and that seems to work out most times than not for the fans.

Everyone has their own preferences on how things should be with characters. The link was no exception. A good link nonetheless, but meh. My opinion remained unchanged even after watching the video. A prime example.

[LordLaharlsVassal]

snip

I really feel there is something missing her. For the most part making a good quality fictional character, from a professional’s point of view, is to make them feel human. Why? Because they are made for real humans to enjoy, love and relate to. What that video describes is how to make female character feel like a real female human, because genetic and societal pressure differences are how real human beings differ then it comes to gender.

If you don't want a character to feel human, that is ok, but when we talk about these kinds of things that is important to keep in mind. I personally want characters I can relate to.

[railar]

snip

I really feel there is something missing her. For the most part making a good quality fictional character, from a professional’s point of view, is to make them feel human. Why? Because they are made for real humans to enjoy, love and relate to. What that video describes is how to make female character feel like a real female human, because genetic and societal pressure differences are how real human beings differ then it comes to gender.

Alrighty. And humans aren't just differentiated from those couple aspects alone. Many things culminate who, or what humans are. And in that case where you stated before is basically derived from genetic/societal pressure differences isn't enough to make them feel human. Sure, how they handle situations, pressures, and etc helps build personal character; which is a staple for character development, but it's not what makes them "feel human" that can be related to on a massive scale. Especially since not all people relate to the same thing(s).

Example being someone didn't like a certain disgaea because there was nothing there for them character wise, yet someone else said it was one of their favorites because the character related to them a lot. It's all personal preference and opinion. Differs greatly in everyone, and everyone won't have the same outlook on certain things as others. While "professionals" can say this or that in terms of a fictional character that should at least act or be this way, because of blank A and blank B; that's basically what they came up with. Not everyone will like the same characters, whether or not they followed the guidelines correctly in the link, and had the appropriate responses to situations that confronted them in the game.

Say if the new Disgaea had a female lead. There's an even chance that I may not like her, you would, or vise versa. Or someone else loves her and we don't. Example: Two people are sitting in the house playing their Disgaea's. One person states how the character is boring and stupid and this and that, while their friend is over there on their ps3 screaming "Oh my gosh I love this character she acts just like I do!" There's more to 'feeling human' or 'relating' to someone on a deep emotional level than just how situations are dealt with. It could be how they were raised (genetics don't have everything to do with this; although it does or can contribute), their thought process, etc. That determines HOW they act in situations yes, but those factors don't always add up in the end. The variables are just too great to be set in a couple examples.

If you don't want a character to feel human, that is ok, but when we talk about these kinds of things that is important to keep in mind. I personally want characters I can relate to.

There we go. That is your preference, without any "professional" views to reference. That is what you would like to have in a character. If the character was female; if she related to you somehow, or had something you could feel for, then would that suffice? Or do you follow a strict guideline in which events follow that would mold the character into one set archetype, and you'd like her regardless?

My post was all over the place and I apologize. I'm not trying to just shut down your opinions. At all, I respect them and agree with a lot of what you say. I just wanted to rebuttal the whole "professional" deal about what characters should be in terms of gender, and the like.

[vampko]

There's a reason I said I was rambling without direction...>.>

I never said a woman has to act girly to be a female character. I was more going on how the world and society around them would require some differences to succeed. Otherwise, like P3P, they would think it were just a lazy effort on NIS' part and there was no purpose in creating a female lead (to make this clear, the problem with
P3P was that the character really wasn't any different from the male MC, and the way the people treated her was almost identical. Which sort of made it feel like there wasn't much effort being done to make her different)

My post was more about what was around the character, than the character themself. I trust NIS to create an amazing main character regardless pretty much. It's the people around them, and the situations around them that need to have some sort of change, otherwise it just won't feel like there was a point to bothering with the change.

Is that a bit more clear?

[LordLaharlsVassal]

Alrighty. And humans aren't just differentiated from those couple aspects alone.

Of course not! Human psychology is way more complicated than that, but we were talking about what would be different if nixt Disgaea game had a femal lead, not all the things that makes characters and humans different from each other, that is a way bigger topic to cover.

but it's not what makes them "feel human" that can be related to on a massive scale.

Well of course no writer can please everyone, it is impossible to do that. And "enjoy, love and relate to" are just a few examples I wrote up quickly (I should have added a etc., sorry), however a character was meant or intended to be perceived depends on what a writer wants and what use the character has in the narrative. If the writer wants the villain of the story to be hated by the audience as much as possible, then the villain will most likely be about as un-relatable as writer can manage to make them.

But we are talking about leads today, they are the once we follow thoughout the story, and the writer probably wants the target audience to be interested in the leading character, so that they will keep on playing/watching/reading etc.
There are many reasons why writers tends to make leads act human, one is relatability, because while not everyone can relate to the same character no one will (most likely) relate to a character that does not act human at all.
Making the lead character act human also allows the writer to explore the human condition, and teach the audience something about themselves and/or other people that the audience might not have thought of before.
There are many other reasons and I could go on, but I am tired right now.

Is that a bit more clear?

Yes, that makes sense; "women and men deals with different societal pressures and people will judge them based on their gender, and therefore treat them differently", have I understood you correctly?

[Seventh]

Sure, but only if the character is still "main character"-worthy as opposed to "female lead" or "female character"-worthy, and we just happen to be controlling them in the base.

[NiNekoNe]

Oh dear, this got grimy quickly. Although everyone's putting good points up, I do believe the original question was whether you want a female lead or not not what the perfect female lead is...both parties have very good comments but I do believe in the end that there is no "professional" or "correct" way to make a female lead character...all it comes down to is what NISA want to make her into. I've seen every possible form of female lead, from silent to spazzy, dead-set serious and unbelievable floozy. They all have people whom love and relate to them, and they all have people who'd personally throw them off the nearest cliff. If you say "A Female lead should have [X]." I guarantee you I can find at least five female leads whom do not have that quality. Success is what you make of it, the characters imperfections are, in fact, what makes them perfect! (like Etna's chest....*cough*)

All in all, please settle down people, you're scaring the children!

[vampko]

@laharlsvassal
Basically yep.

@Seventh
Of course it matters on how well NIS pulls off the main character, but I trust them

@NiNekoNe
It was relevant to the conversation. The thought was put up that it's 'stereotypical' if things are much different if NIS were to do a female lead in their next Disgaea. which is still relevant to the topic.

At least I think so? Topics get derailed so much here I'm just sorta used to it

[Good-for-nothing]

All in all, please settle down people, you're scaring the children!

Well, everyone's being rather civil in the discussion. Just because opinions are being exchanged doesn't mean an argument is being waged. Some interesting points are actually being brought up in all of this.

In the end, I don't think the pressure of having a female lead in Disgaea would be as in-depth as a more 'serious' game - including other titles by NIS which were more dramatic, and with a female lead, such as Phantom Brave. We have to remember that Disgaea characters tend to have extreme, and unrealistic, personalities and motivations. Not many of the characters act remotely like real humans would, so the whole 'balance' problem of a female lead wouldn't be as constricting as it would be in a more dramatic setting with a more serious tone. We are talking about a series where Etna vowed revenge on Laharl because he ate her pudding, after all.

[DL Zandorf Rahamasch]

Sounds like nice for me.

[NiNekoNe]

Well I hadn't meant that anyone was screaming at the other or ripping heads off, I just meant that it was getting a little less like female lead or no talk and more like who was right about what she should be like...I know it's relevant but it didn't look like a common ground was in sight (o~o); My apologies if anyone misunderstood me!