Mugen Souls (PS3)

[Rednal]

What is it that you hate about the ESRB, exactly?

[Ellipsis]

What is it that you hate about the ESRB, exactly?

I think everyone in this thread is just hating on it's existance because it ends up in content being cut or edited.

[Darcnova]

What is it that you hate about the ESRB, exactly?

Most people hate on it to hate on it, or because they sometimes force companies to edit games to keep a rating, and I'm pretty sure that the loli content would have gotten this to an AO, due to the taboo, so I dunno...I'd rathe rget the game with some censorship than not at all

[Rednal]

I don't think the ESRB actually forces companies to edit games. More... companies recognize that certain things will get certain ratings, and in order to appeal to certain crowds (or for other reasons), they may decide to modify the game on their own.

[Obake]

What is it that you hate about the ESRB, exactly?

They rate games.

To elaborate, its the rating scale I really have a problem with. If it was just the list of possibly objectionable content off to the side I'd have nothing to say, can't argue with a list of facts. But when you put things in a scale like that, you get the console makers banning anything that gets AO (that's what comes after MA right?), which then leads to publishers preemptively censoring content that might get them that rating. Or worse, censoring further to get an even lower rating to 'broaden their audience.' Then you get stores (I'm guessing its them and not law) slapping on an arbitrary minimum age to buy such content. Being mature enough to handle a work of fantasy has very little to do with age. I've been watching R movies every since I can remember, and violent videogames not much less, and I turned out fine. Yet middle-aged conservatives and regulators still can't handle it. I feel like there's something else I was going to say, but I just lost my train of thought.

Anyway, you could say it isn't the ESRB I have the problem with, and you'd be right. But when everything I do hate centers around them, they get the attention.

All that said, it is still better than government regulators.

[Ellipsis]

All that said, it is still better than government regulators.

Quoted for pure truthfulness

[Rednal]

Console makers generally have an image they want to maintain; rating system or not, there's things that aren't allowed on consoles in particular areas, period. The scale itself really has nothing to do with that. Stores also tend to only stock rated games (THEY don't want to be liable for kids getting their hands on adult content, y'know? Lawsuits out the wazoo.), and in keeping with their desire to maintain images, I doubt they'd stock AO games anyway. I understand the rating is pretty much a death sentence for games.

Basically, content past a certain level ain't happening. I dunno about broadening the audience, but don't forget that publishers (etc.) also want to make a profit. Given the choice between "No Censorship, Practically No Sales" and "Minor Changes, Reasonable Profit", I think most companies would choose the latter.

[Obake]

Symptoms of an insecure, lawsuit-happy society.

I probably sound more pissed than I really am. I'm over getting pissed over this sort of thing. It'll never make me happy, but when the alternative is not getting it at all, I'll take it. It is what it is, nothing I can do to change it. Stupid or not.

[vertical09]

Yeah, the censoring sucks (especially when you was so looking forward to said contents) but i guess we just gotta suck it up, I wish i knew how much they are censoring it though.

On another topic, since you basically deal so much damage you cant even say the # correctly, im assuming the monsters havean enormous amount of hp too right? Wouldn't be fun to kill a monster with a 100 hp with a 1 trigalillion hit =P

[Rednal]

Hah. Goodness knows there are enough images on the internet anyways; I don't even need the game. I was more interested in the comedy and gameplay portions anyway. The fanservice is just a bonus.

[Ringwraith]

What is it that you hate about the ESRB, exactly?

They rate games.

To elaborate, its the rating scale I really have a problem with. If it was just the list of possibly objectionable content off to the side I'd have nothing to say, can't argue with a list of facts. But when you put things in a scale like that, you get the console makers banning anything that gets AO (that's what comes after MA right?), which then leads to publishers preemptively censoring content that might get them that rating. Or worse, censoring further to get an even lower rating to 'broaden their audience.' Then you get stores (I'm guessing its them and not law) slapping on an arbitrary minimum age to buy such content. Being mature enough to handle a work of fantasy has very little to do with age. I've been watching R movies every since I can remember, and violent videogames not much less, and I turned out fine. Yet middle-aged conservatives and regulators still can't handle it. I feel like there's something else I was going to say, but I just lost my train of thought.

Anyway, you could say it isn't the ESRB I have the problem with, and you'd be right. But when everything I do hate centers around them, they get the attention.

All that said, it is still better than government regulators.

Just because you might be mature enough to partake of media beyond your years, it doesn't mean everyone else is.
They're also there to help educate parents what might/might not be suitable for kids, what they do with that information is up to them.
Besides, no-one seems to have a problem with movie ratings, so why should game ratings be any different?

[Kiyo]

Can everyone who has a Pram Wishlist account please vote for Mugen Souls avatars! I'd love if we can get them as early as possible! Close to the time it'll be released You can vote here -> Mugen Souls PSN Avatars on Pram's Wishlist

Also, I don't mind the censoring as long as it doesn't effect a huge part of the experience. Like if they don't completely remove a part of gameplay, I won't really mind how censored they are. They could wear scuba suits for all I care. In any event, I'll definitely buy it, even if a huge chunk is taken away from the game. Mugen Souls needs support so that NISA can continue to bring over the best games, and localize future games in this series.

[RonXSilva]

im surpised there is not a sub fourm yet i thought one would of been started by now~

[Redsonic]

I posted this in the other topic a few pages back, but here's my whole rant on the Censor fiasco.

Spoiler:

CULTURAL RANT:
-start-

I know for a fact that the bathing minigame is going to be censored. Why would ESRB pass this minigame in cert?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7efHjZjzK7U#t=50s

Sometimes I hate living in America. Our ESRB is blind against cultural differences. Someone might say "WTF? Are you defending a child bathing minigame?", no, i'm just a purist. I hate dubs that alter the original cultural references of the source material (NISA doesn't do this. I love how mk2 still has the same opening as the original game), and that's one of the reasons I like NISA so much. They don't care if their games like Mk2 get M ratings, they won't censor for an M rating.

However, they probably no choice but to censor for Mugen Souls.
It really ticks me off. Of course, there's two factors that will be made in the decision to censor:

>The game can be seen as sexual innuendo
-Yes, yes it can. In Japan, it really isn't that much of a problem since the Age of Consent is 14, and courts have even ruled that consent can be lowered in cases where love can be proven, but that's not it. They're okay with it because it's niche, not mainstream, whereas America even hates niche products and wants to censor everything no matter who the audience is, with a global perspcetive. Additionally, there is a hypocripsy with this video.

A double edged sword, Japan may indeed be a lot less strict about sexual content, but they're more strict about violent content. America and the west in general is the exact opposite. For some bizarre reason, violent content is okay but sexual content is not. Go figure.

>It's a bath.
-The biggest problem with the ESRB is the cultural differences. Japan is a place where public baths are commonplace for all ages, from children to adults to the elderly. You will literally chat it up with people in a bath where both of you are naked talking. It's literally a common thing for everyone to do. In the west? No. We do have some public bath areas but its nowhere near as commonplace as in Japan, so a public bath minigame loses all cultural value when brought to the west. Normally, NISA would be okay with bringing the content over unaltered, but in this case the ESRB may force their hand.

Finally, Mugen Souls isn't the only game to have a bathing minigame. Record of Agarest War had one and it wasn't really censored afaik, but Mugen Souls is taking it too far for our culture (not for the culture where it was originally developed, though).

-END CULTURAL RANT-

NISA is being forced to edit the game to match our culture. I don't agree with this view one bit. Editing the culture of a foreign material to match your culture for the sake of appeasing a ratings board is something I will never agree with, although I fully understand why it's done. Japan is guilty of the opposite, censoring violent and crude sexual content from western games for their culture, because these games are generally sold in toy shops.

If people played japanese role playing games for western culture then we wouldn't be playing JRPGs, now would we? The censoring is just completely stupid. But no fault is on NISA for this one, I just wonder what they'll do with the scene. I don't think they'll completely remove it. Bathing suits + more fog is likely. Completely removing the minigame wouldn't really mesh with NISA's views on the matter.

The rating that this game is shooting for also matters. Bathing suits + fog honestly is suitable for an M-rated title I think over here. If they're shooting for a T rating though, the game will definitely be axed completely. Throw all the fog you want, ESRB will still pull sexual referencing out of that which can most definitely void it of any T rating. It all depends, we don't know all the facts yet, so nothing we can do now but speculate. Did mk2 sell well with its M rating and all?

[Ringwraith]

It's more an issue of the character's apparent ages, as that crosses into legal and ethical minefields, and a mere 'M' won't cover that.