*SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby puellako » Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:51 pm

concerning komaeda
Spoiler:
He does treat Hinata poorly BUT you also have to understand that his worldview pretty much dominates everything he does. That doesn't justify treating hinata poorly but it helps to understand why he did it. He even says something along the lines of 'Even though you're untalented, why is it that you resonate so deeply with me'
His world view conflicts with his feelings (romantic/platonic/what ever) towards Hinata. He still lets him know in various ways that he feels a connection with Hinata, but his worldview dominating everything affects that.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby GoldStarz » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:31 pm

Mirai wrote:
Lago wrote:
Mirai wrote:
SuperNipah wrote:
Spoiler:
With regards to Junko, I think she's dead, without question. As for her body, from the description I took it as meaning that the Ultimate Despair members just salvaged what was left of her smushed corpse. While it's safe to assume most of it was pulp, I guess certain parts must have been more intact than others (like her hand, for instance).


Spoiler:
The point is that if she was killed in detention, her body would be so mushed up it would not be possible to retrieve her body parts in fine condition, just look at this picture from SDR2 below:
Image

As you can see her hand is completely intact, there's no scars, wounds or anything. That's just not possible if she was squashed in detention and her hand wouldn't conveniently fly away before it was squashed either. Unless this issue becomes some sort of twist in a future release, this is a plot-hole on Spike Chunsoft's part.


Spoiler:
Not really sure why you're focusing on this so much when she also got shot with hundreds of baseballs, got electrocuted in the motorcycle cage, got crush by a fire truck, got pummeled by a dozing machine, and came crashing down from high up in the sky in a rocket all without apparently suffering a scratch.


Spoiler:
What I'm saying is if she died in detention there's no way her body would be in one piece because if it was, then she would still be alive just like with all the other executions.

Also regarding your earlier post I very much agree on Souda making it to the end, as he was the only survivor who didn't have any strong connections to the students that had 'died'. I would of much preferred it if they kept Hiyoko.


End Game/Dangan Ronpa AE Spoilers
Spoiler:
It also would've had to survive over a year and a half without decomposing rather than about 3 days to a week. I'm pretty sure we can chalk this one up to the creators fudging the details a bit.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby Kuzuryuu » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:39 pm

Spoiler:
Her body wouldn't need to survive very long because all that had to happen was that after the survivors escaped Ultimate Despair just had to go into the school and take her body. It could have been the same day she died for all we know. DRAE doesn't take place a year and half after DR1 it takes place only half a year later.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby Alice Twilight » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:13 pm

Her organs would have been mush no getting around that.
Yummy, imagine raising that concrete block and seeing whats underneith and whats about to fall off from the underside, don't step in it now.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby Mirai » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:30 pm

Ainara wrote:I...
Yeah, okay. I apologise in advance since I am terrible at wording things. That is a common way to interpret his feelings for him, but... Uh. It's actually kind of the opposite. There are people who have worded it better than me, let me search:
http://mrie.co.vu/post/77199090220/i-ju ... ngan-ronpa
That one explains it nicely, better than I ever could, honestly.
They have written a longer one, but due to it being very long and related to another topic, I'll put the most relevant paragraphs in here:
Spoiler:
[In response to another person]The problem with your argument is that you’re taking one little thing out of context and painting it as Komaeda inherently being malicious and emotionally manipulative, which really isn’t the case at all. The thing about how he made fun of Hinata wasn’t specifically to put him down, but to reinforce his own worldview and police his ideology that the talented are born talented and the untalented need to understand that they will never be talented. A part of it is also pushing aside his own insecurities.
Hinata is absolutely nothing special to the world but special to him, and he cannot figure out why. That’s why he said what he did to Hinata — not to degrade him, not to humiliate him, not to verbally abuse him, not to make him feel bad about himself.
He did it as a means of self-defense because he’s confused that his entire ideology and means of coping with his hopeless life are being challenged.

And a last one thing- I don't know how much of Komaeda's backstory you know but...
Spoiler:
"Just like the only thing Junko loves is despair, Komeada only loves hope." That hurt me a little. Komaeda and Junko comparisons always hurt me a little. Junko loves despair because she was born that way because she is the crazy villain of a crazy franchise.
Komaeda "loves" hope because after all the shit he had to go through, after losing every single person and thing that mattered to him in this world, after having to accept that his cycle of luck wouldn't let him be close to anybody and probably never be happy again, developing a worship of hope was the only way to stay alive. There's also the fact that he's mentally ill. No, it doesn't excuse his actions, but if I recall correctly one of the symptoms of FTD may be developing an obsession over certain concept, which. Didn't really help his situation at all, did it.
Komaeda didn't "love Hinata out of his obsession for hope" for two reasons. First, he equates Hope with Talent, and he probably always knew Hinata didn't have any. That's why he said so many times they were similar, he felt like Hinata was just a bystander, too. You saw his relationship as "Komaeda liked Hinata because of his hope > Komaeda discovered Hinata didn't have any > Komaeda stopped liking Hinata" when it's not so simple at all, and it's more like "Komaeda liked Hinata despite knowing that he may not have a talent, because Hinata tried to understand him despite being confused > Komaeda discovered Hinata didn't have a talent > Komaeda still liked him, he was scared because it challenged his worldview, tried to convince himself Hinata wasn't important and he doesn't like Hinata, when he did, in fact, still care about him."
And the second one is, the reason it's so important why Komaeda doesn't love Hinata out of hope is because his feelings for Hinata are the only thing in Komaeda that's remotely human. The only thing that didn't fit with his obsession with hope. And that's such an IMPORTANT part of his character

Aaand I'm closing up! It's really late where I live and I'm probably not making any sense, so I should really go to bed! I hope we can keep talking about this tomorrow, Komaeda is a really fascinating character.


I believe you are misunderstanding me here to some extend as your post is implying that I dislike Komaeda which is not true, in fact he's one of my favourite characters.

Spoiler:
I just disapprove of fans who believe him and Hinata are an official couple. Yes I do know Komaeda's backstory and how shit his life has been and I do apologise if you felt offended with my comparison to Junko as Junko's obsession with Despair was from the very beginning of her life and she's outright psychotic, whereas Komeada went through a ton of bad ordeals which ended up with him being so obsessed with hope because that was the only he could cope with his current life. Then he gets infected with a brain disease which just makes matters worse for him.

Anyway getting back on track with the shipping. Komeada said they're both similar because they both have an obsession with Hope's Peak Academy which is the pinnacle of talent and hope. Hinata is the first person he's come across that has a similar belief to himself which is why he became so interested in Hinata. When he finds out Hinata is a reserve student as well as SHSL Despair his attitude to Hinata drastically changes because he's so disappointed and even upset with him,(as he found someone similar only to find out he's something that Komaeda despises). However he had one last shred of hope when he also found out the 'traitor' was not SHSL Despair, which is why he did everything he could to save them. We don't know for sure but it maybe possible that Komaeda hoped that Hinata was the 'traitor'.


What I would consider a canon shipping would be something like "Yuna x Tidus" in FFX. I don't even consider Naegi x Kirigiri canon either, its only implied which is why I can accept if fans say there are implications but there is no confirmation of those two being a couple. The only couples that are canon in DR are:

Spoiler:
Sakura x Kenshiro
Ryouko x Matsuda
Peko x Kuzuryuu


The rest of the shipping's is speculation and theory and unless it is confirmed by "Word of God" I will disagree with those two being an official couple.

Edit:
Kuzuryuu wrote:
Spoiler:
Her body wouldn't need to survive very long because all that had to happen was that after the survivors escaped Ultimate Despair just had to go into the school and take her body. It could have been the same day she died for all we know. DRAE doesn't take place a year and half after DR1 it takes place only half a year later.


Spoiler:
I sincerely doubt it was on the same day, do remember the DR1 survivors were picked up by the Future Foundation the moment they walked out Hope's Peak and most likely FF members were strolling around Hope's Peak for quite some time it would of taken several days before they could of entered the school. Well this is just my speculation no one really knows exactly when. Regardless her body was flattened like a pancake so they couldn't retrieve her body parts, however I'm starting to believe with the inclusion of "servant" in DR:AE that they may introduce clones into the series. Which although cheap could explain this current plot hole.
"We've both been rejected by this world, we both feel the same threat. Yet here we are destined to kill each other in the end."

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby Ainara » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:44 pm

I didn't try to imply you disliked him, sorry if it came off that way.
Spoiler:
I wasn't offended, don't worry, it was a joking expression. It's just I'm overall tired of mischaracterizations that involve him being a Hope Junko.
But you didn't say you disapproved of fans who believed they were an official couple, you tried to refuse the fact that Komaeda has feelings for Hinata; one character having feelings for another doesn't mean official couple. Believe me, I do get annoyed too at fans who treats them as one. That's just absurd.
Komaeda felt a strong link to Hinata not only because their worship of Hope's Peak, but also because Hinata gave the same vibe of being just one bystander more, just like him. Also because, y'know, Hinata wasn't the only one in the group who didn't treat him like a psychopath-bar Nanami, maybe, but Hinata was the only one who tried to understand him, which is very big. Maybe he didn't ACTIVELY realise it, as proven by how badly he took the news in ch. 4, but it's what drew him to Hinata.
As I said, Komaeda's insults towards Hinata weren't because now he despised him- if he did, why didn't he make angry comments at the other people, too? Sure, he changed his attitude towards them but he didn't outright attack them like he did with Hinata. The reason he did that was because he still cared about Hinata. And he still cared about Hinata because his feelings for him weren't due to his obsession with Hope's Peak, and that's what makes them so important. He insulted him as a ways to convince himself that Hinata was worthless and didn't deserve being in his mind- but he did. If he was just disappointed at the news and stopped caring about Hinata, he would've treated him like he started treating the others.

As for the second thing.
Spoiler:
I honestly don't know where you got that idea, but I didn't state Komaeda and Hinata is canon or whatever, not even once. I couldn't care less about that. I'm not saying "omg but listen to me it's totally canon!!!" I'm saying the nature of Komaeda's feelings towards Hinata are vital to his character because it's the only thing in him that actually ISN'T based around his obsession with hope. Because it seems I can't argue about a character's motivations without being a shipper that reads too much into things.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby Mirai » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:34 pm

Ainara wrote:I didn't try to imply you disliked him, sorry if it came off that way.
Spoiler:
I wasn't offended, don't worry, it was a joking expression. It's just I'm overall tired of mischaracterizations that involve him being a Hope Junko.
But you didn't say you disapproved of fans who believed they were an official couple, you tried to refuse the fact that Komaeda has feelings for Hinata; one character having feelings for another doesn't mean official couple. Believe me, I do get annoyed too at fans who treats them as one. That's just absurd.
Komaeda felt a strong link to Hinata not only because their worship of Hope's Peak, but also because Hinata gave the same vibe of being just one bystander more, just like him. Also because, y'know, Hinata wasn't the only one in the group who didn't treat him like a psychopath-bar Nanami, maybe, but Hinata was the only one who tried to understand him, which is very big. Maybe he didn't ACTIVELY realise it, as proven by how badly he took the news in ch. 4, but it's what drew him to Hinata.
As I said, Komaeda's insults towards Hinata weren't because now he despised him- if he did, why didn't he make angry comments at the other people, too? Sure, he changed his attitude towards them but he didn't outright attack them like he did with Hinata. The reason he did that was because he still cared about Hinata. And he still cared about Hinata because his feelings for him weren't due to his obsession with Hope's Peak, and that's what makes them so important. He insulted him as a ways to convince himself that Hinata was worthless and didn't deserve being in his mind- but he did. If he was just disappointed at the news and stopped caring about Hinata, he would've treated him like he started treating the others.

As for the second thing.
Spoiler:
I honestly don't know where you got that idea, but I didn't state Komaeda and Hinata is canon or whatever, not even once. I couldn't care less about that. I'm not saying "omg but listen to me it's totally canon!!!" I'm saying the nature of Komaeda's feelings towards Hinata are vital to his character because it's the only thing in him that actually ISN'T based around his obsession with hope. Because it seems I can't argue about a character's motivations without being a shipper that reads too much into things.


Okay I'll start with your last point...

Spoiler:
You did use a source that is supportive of the Komaeda x Hinata shipping so that's most likely why I went down that route. It is true you never said Komaeda x Hinata is an official couple, however you did say Komaeda has an official crush on Hinata here:
http://nisamerica.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=12734&start=1440#p815271 seeing that "crush" is used when someone is in love with another that would make me assume you do care to some extent Komaeda x Hinata.


Now back to the main one:
Spoiler:
" you tried to refuse the fact that Komaeda has feelings for Hinata; one character having feelings for another doesn't mean official couple. Believe me, I do get annoyed too at fans who treats them as one. That's just absurd.
By feelings what kind of feelings? If you mean the kind of feeling where you just want the targeted person to accept and understand you then I would agree, if you mean it in a romantic way, however then I would disagree. Because of the way Komeada behaves he doesn't have any friends as people think he's a weirdo, As the final Dangan Island scene shows, as much as he wants to prove Hope's worth, he also wants a friend by his side who can understand his views. In this case this is Hinata.
As I said, Komaeda's insults towards Hinata weren't because now he despised him- if he did, why didn't he make angry comments at the other people, too?
Umm Komaeda was rude/angry to everybody not just Hinata, he was only slightly ruder to him because he doesn't even have a talent. Komaeda hates despair so he is going to be rude and insult everybody who's associated with despair. Since Komaeda wanted Hinata to be his friend he was probably hoping that he was the 'traitor' and therefore not SHSL despair. As even if Hinata doesn't have a SHSL talent he would have more respect for him then someone who's SHSL Despair. However I think we can both agree that his obsession with Hope was more important to him than how he felt towards Hinata otherwise he wouldn't of done what he did in Chapter 5.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby Ainara » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:00 pm

Ah, I shouldn't stay up so late.
Spoiler:
I do care about Komaeda x Hinata, that doesn't mean I can't have a rational argument without claiming it's canon, hope I finally cleared that up.

Spoiler:
Forgive me for considering main timeline slightly more canon than Dangan Island, but his feelings are romantic because, you know, love confession. And before we go back to the "BUT WHAT AFTER THE REVELATION" point, I'd like to say that in the original thread what you tried to refuse was Komaeda having a crush on Hinata BEFORE the revelation (because the topic at hands was before chapter 4)
As for why his behavior post-revelation changed, whatever, I don't care anymore, we're just running in circles now. You're not gonna change my opinion, I'm not gonna change yours, we're just gonna repeat the same things. Komaeda very much has a crush on Hinata and I don't see how it's so hard to accept, it's not gonna make Komaeda x Hinata canon, I'm not saying it is, but I guess to each their own. You asked me in which moment Komaeda said he had a crush on Hinata and when I showed you this somehow turned into an argument of whether those feelings were platonic or not or whatever. I hope I didn't come off as an asshole in any moment.
And for one last thing, of course his obsession with hope is stronger than his romantic feelings for Hinata. Because it's what has kept him alive.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby Mirai » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:41 pm

Ainara wrote:Ah, I shouldn't stay up so late.
Spoiler:
I do care about Komaeda x Hinata, that doesn't mean I can't have a rational argument without claiming it's canon, hope I finally cleared that up.

Spoiler:
Forgive me for considering main timeline slightly more canon than Dangan Island, but his feelings are romantic because, you know, love confession. And before we go back to the "BUT WHAT AFTER THE REVELATION" point, I'd like to say that in the original thread what you tried to refuse was Komaeda having a crush on Hinata BEFORE the revelation (because the topic at hands was before chapter 4)
As for why his behavior post-revelation changed, whatever, I don't care anymore, we're just running in circles now. You're not gonna change my opinion, I'm not gonna change yours, we're just gonna repeat the same things. Komaeda very much has a crush on Hinata and I don't see how it's so hard to accept, it's not gonna make Komaeda x Hinata canon, I'm not saying it is, but I guess to each their own. You asked me in which moment Komaeda said he had a crush on Hinata and when I showed you this somehow turned into an argument of whether those feelings were platonic or not or whatever. I hope I didn't come off as an asshole in any moment.
And for one last thing, of course his obsession with hope is stronger than his romantic feelings for Hinata. Because it's what has kept him alive.



This is the internet anything, even if you don't want it to can turn into an argument although I'm the one who started the argument so I can't really talk there.

Spoiler:
Komaeda very much has a crush on Hinata and I don't see how it's so hard to accept, it's not gonna make Komaeda x Hinata canon, I'm not saying it is, but I guess to each their own. Now you're coming off here as if this is a fact and I'm just being in denial. Personally I don't count someone who says "I love the hope you carry in your heart" as someone having a crush on someone. To me what Komeada said isn't much different then me saying I just love how talented and fast Usain Bolt is at running the 100M. Considering to Komeada Hope is talent this goes well.

Okay since you no longer want to debate on this matter that's all I'll say. And no I don't feel you've been an asshole towards me at all, debates can be quite stressful for everybody involved so I know at some points people can be quite aggressive including myself. I've had to argue with people who have made personal insults towards me so I'm barely if at all offended from what you have said.
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby GoldStarz » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:01 pm

Errr... To steer away from the KomaHina debate...

End of Chapter 3 onwards Spoilers
Spoiler:
For anyone who has the dubbed game, did they change the name of the Future Foundation? Just wondering since they might've changed it to avoid conflict with Marvel's Future Foundation.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby edgy404 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:48 pm

I just got done playing the prologue, but alas, I have to put it down for the night. Classes first thing in the morning and I have homework to do. :cry:

But there was one thing that caught my attention.
Spoiler:
I thought the students in DR2 were 2nd years, but they stated they were freshmen. Was it a translation error or is this fact?
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby Zetsubear » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:50 pm

Almost done with the Prologue.

Not going to bed until I finish the 1st Class Trial
Spoiler:
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby GoldStarz » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:54 pm

edgy404 wrote:I just got done playing the prologue, but alas, I have to put it down for the night. Classes first thing in the morning and I have homework to do. :cry:

But there was one thing that caught my attention.
Spoiler:
I thought the students in DR2 were 2nd years, but they stated they were freshmen. Was it a translation error or is this fact?

Endgame Spoilers I guess
Spoiler:
The Future Foundation wiped all their memories of Hope's Peak to be safe, half of them aren't even in the same class.

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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby edgy404 » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:17 pm

I saw endgame spoilers, so I'm going to leave it at that. :lol:
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Re: *SPOILERS* Dangan Ronpa 2 General Spoilers Discussion

Postby GoldStarz » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:33 pm

Not really a spoiler of itself, but this question might have a spoilish answer, but since the English Dub is now officially out, I figured I might as well finally read DR 0, so does anyone have a recommended pattern between playing the game and reading the light novel (like what Chapter should I be at in the game before I read a chapter in the book?)


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