Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:59 am

neonie wrote:
Sleepyprinny99 wrote:

Yeah, there are no good ways to do chara trailers for stuff like that...but I was commenting more on how you took to her transition to this side of the world...her "oujou" ness in translation...I guess? She seemed to fit your "swoon meter" criteria from what I caught.


Oh, sorry, to clarify, I wasn't responding to anything you said specifically, I was just commenting on the trailer it self.

In regards to her oujoness... That's another thing I don't think these trailers do well. I can't actually get a feel for her personality in three lines of dialogue, lol. The trailer doesn't really tell me anything about who she is. Just that she doesn't like teachers. So something probably happened in the past regarding her and a teacher.


Sleepyprinny99 wrote:That animated intro style intro would be nice...but yeah...hella expensive.
It is rarely used, but harx to put together so it doesn't happen much and usually not for RPGs like this. Crappy intro or not, it does do the job so I'll let it slide since it can still give some good insight if you narrow your expectations.


I'm not going to link to it, because it is, extremely, not safe for work, but you can probably find it if you go search for it on DL Site, but I don't think having Rondou Duo style cut-scenes would be completely impossible, or over budget, here. With the Live 2D they are already using. It doesn't need to look as good as Rondou duo, but I think it would make for a way nicer style of presentation than what is currently being used for the trailers.

You're already using the Live 2D for the mini-game, why not also use it, for some nicely animated cut-scenes?

Edit: Actually, I don't think DL Site actually has the Rondou Duo introduction scene. Which I think shows off what I'm actually talking about. It's trailer appears to show more of the... Lewd stuff.

Edit #2: PMed you a thing.



I was more responding to you than you to me since it seemed more general in your post.
Normally, you'd be right in how a few snippets won't tell you much, but for those who've seen a bit of the original, heard in my case since I can't read korean at all yet...it was useful. The tone and feels seem about right from what I got to see. That's what pretty particular about. The feels man, the feels.

Live2D cutscenes...would be nice actually. Awkward silence aside, I'm digging its use in motivation this go around...very..."motivating" in its own right.

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby neonie » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:14 am

Sleepyprinny99 wrote:
I was more responding to you than you to me since it seemed more general in your post.


I half have the desire to keep this going:

"No! I was responding to you, responding to me, responding to you, responding to me!" Lmao.

Sleepyprinny99 wrote:Normally, you'd be right in how a few snippets won't tell you much, but for those who've seen a bit of the original, heard in my case since I can't read korean at all yet...it was useful. The tone and feels seem about right from what I got to see. That's what pretty particular about. The feels man, the feels.


Ah, I've seen absolutly nothing of the original. I've actually seen very, very little about this game in general. So for me, the trailer kind of fell flat in actually showing the character off. The voice clips for Lily on the website did a better job at actually conveying her tone. (The way she speaks.) I think.

There are two major things I need to know about oujo characters before I love them to death:

#1: Do they say, "Desu wa!"

#2: Do they go, "Ooohohohohoho!~"

Sleepyprinny99 wrote:Live2D cutscenes...would be nice actually. Awkward silence aside, I'm digging its use in motivation this go around...very..."motivating" in its own right.


I actually wonder if animated cut-scenes, in any capacity, were actually ever considered for Criminal Girls 1 or 2. I wonder, if this sells well enough to warrant a third game being made, if it would ever be on the table for 3.
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Houk wrote:THE HYPOTHETICAL CENSORSHIP OF BABIES!

Spoiler:

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:34 am

neonie wrote:
Sleepyprinny99 wrote:
I was more responding to you than you to me since it seemed more general in your post.


I half have the desire to keep this going:

"No! I was responding to you, responding to me, responding to you, responding to me!" Lmao.

Sleepyprinny99 wrote:Normally, you'd be right in how a few snippets won't tell you much, but for those who've seen a bit of the original, heard in my case since I can't read korean at all yet...it was useful. The tone and feels seem about right from what I got to see. That's what pretty particular about. The feels man, the feels.


Ah, I've seen absolutly nothing of the original. I've actually seen very, very little about this game in general. So for me, the trailer kind of fell flat in actually showing the character off. The voice clips for Lily on the website did a better job at actually conveying her tone. (The way she speaks.) I think.

There are two major things I need to know about oujo characters before I love them to death:

#1: Do they say, "Desu wa!"

#2: Do they go, "Ooohohohohoho!~"

Sleepyprinny99 wrote:Live2D cutscenes...would be nice actually. Awkward silence aside, I'm digging its use in motivation this go around...very..."motivating" in its own right.


I actually wonder if animated cut-scenes, in any capacity, were actually ever considered for Criminal Girls 1 or 2. I wonder, if this sells well enough to warrant a third game being made, if it would ever be on the table for 3.



...That first part...pierces my soul...and I die inside a little.

Finding info on this game....is surprisingly hard. Well, game proper anyway.
As for her oujou-ness...
1. She does "desu wa"...no worries.
2. ...Not so much "ohohoho" though, well, I didn't catch it so it might be there...but kinda hard to see her do it though with that scowl of hers.

I...really doubt animated cuteness were a thing, especially with 1 being a PSP title first and all.
But if 3 did happen, character/scene intros and opening/endings would rock! Kinda expensive but it'd be awesome!

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:59 pm

I checked out the Intro...and yeah, something like that would be awesome...but hard to imagine for such a niche title.

Man though, given the personalities of the girls in CG though...you could imagine some REALLY colorful skits here, especially if the skits dealt with aspects of the girls from *before* dying juxtaposed over their current selves in the game...like hinting at their Shadows or something.

That would be sweet and totally in line with the series too!

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:52 pm

Kuroe trailer is up...and yeah, she's as messed up as I remember.

Like a more screwed up Alice, but for totally different reasons.
...That Baron of hers though. I wonder what the deal with it is.

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby LeDelmo » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:37 pm

First let my just get it out there that I am not a fan of these types of games.

But, I really want to ask this.

I for one really like the character design. They look very well done in both the 1st game and 2nd. But I cant get over this game play. It keeps me far away from these games. To me the main character "AKA the warden person" is committing heinous atrocities against these girls. Criminals or not most of these girls look like children and what he does to them is just wrong.

My question is why waste these good character designs on games like these?

I know this question is out of place. And more than a bit of a downer but I am really curious as to why some of these very good designs couldn't make there way into a game that doesn't require them to be exploited...

Again sorry for the weird question. I am probably just taking things too seriously...

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:56 pm

@LeDelmo

It's no problem, and a valid question.
Let's reverse the question though.

I mean...what reason is there to *not* use the character designs/artistic talents for the game?
Well, for one there are the reasons you outlined...accentuating the gameplay of which you, and likely plenty of folks don't like, which is fine. But...this game and its art aren't for you to begin with then, I mean unless you wanna give it a try that is, otherwise no point in giving it a second thought.

Even if somebody doesn't like it, or feel that it's "wrong", that only matters to "you" and not to the person doing the character designs for a game they're working on...in short, part of it is professionalism, pure and simple. Then there's the cultural difference in attitudes in content. Next is demand by the fans and the desire to turn a profit on a project, get paid, pay bills...etc, etc. All very real, all very important reasons right there.

Now, you could say that, aside from culture and demand by we "perverse and morally bankrupt fans" that it's "wrong" no matter what and that there's plenty of other stuff to work on that could just as easily show off those sweet, sweet character designs...but yeah, no.

The game has its fans, both at home(Japan) and abroad(US/EU...and anywhere else, I guess) so naturally you'd want the best art you can get in order to meet those fans' demands and expectations. Sorry, but there are folks who like the games for *exactly* the reasons you don't, or for any other reason really and it's done well enough to get the first game a remake, spawn a sequel AND warrant both titles international release and it's those character designs and art that helped sell it and fans/sales that support it.
That right there is more than enough reason.

Then there's the premise...you can't exploit the dead...they are dead and in, at least in-game, hell with the only options being eternal damnation or redemption. It's also a moot point thinking that being any age would matter in a situation like that, and the only reason it does is because for whatever reason, reality cares and people forget that fiction is fiction and fiction has no rights besides copyrights.

Personally, I love these sort of games and content so that might color my vuews just as much as your dislike does for it.

All I can say is that good art and character designs are NEVER wasted when there *are* fans who *want and appreciate* said content and art, as well as profit to be made on a relatively successful product that those character designs/art helped to make happen. Then there's the whole, NIS developed the game and the artist/s work for NIS....and I seriously doubt any of them had a problem with working on it before deciding to localize it here...especially since there *is* demand for the title and its art that helped make bringing it over a reality in the first place.
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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby RandomR » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:37 pm

@LeDelmo
they're pixels on a screen, they're not real people and they're not being exploited, no real person is being harmed, actually nothing is being harmed, certainly not game assets.

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:31 am

A fair bit into the opening act of the game and HOLY CRAP did things spiral out of control fast!!!

I'll say this much, the group dynamics are...colorful.
Everyone plays against each other really well so far.

As for the MC...I'm SO glad that he isn't just there this time around. It's nice he has presence...which in the first game didn't happen till the Ice Block.

Lily...is kinda likeable. Bitchy, but likeable.
Tsukasa and Sui are surprising me a bit but that's good.

My only complaint gameplay-wise is the lack of an actual New Game + here...it just seems kinda odd. Like, add in the option to continue or start fresh wiith extra CM maybe, extra dificulty level(minus the insanely hard bosses, they can stay put) and/or bonus EX dungeon(I liked that from the first game)....ah well.

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Rednal » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:16 am

All right, I finally finished the game! Thoughts below.

Spoiler:
1) Screw the hidden boss. DX That fight SUCKED, and I'm glad I don't have to do it again.

2) I thought the localization work was excellent - all of the characters really showed off their personalities in the text. The team should be proud of the work they did there. Ultimately, I liked all of the girls, although Kuroe, Sui, and Enri were my favorites. I'm a little sad Enri never changed clothes, but oh well. XD

3) The motivation minigame seemed easier than the first game's. The only one I really had trouble with was the slime shot, and I solved that by just starting to flick as fast as I could instead of trying to perfectly line up each shot. That seemed to work better.

My final overall verdict for the game is a B+. The story was enjoyable and the characters were a lot of fun as I got to know them. System-wise, I feel like it could have been set up so less grinding was needed. I ended up listening to music and casually grinding, which helped. There were only two fights I felt were unnecessarily difficult. One was with the three swordsmen enemies late in the game (high damage to everyone, and when all three do it, they can instantly wipe out a party even if you're at full health - nasty), and the other was that ridiculous hidden boss. XD; I felt my victory was more luck than anything, despite lots of extra grinding, so that could probably have been done better.
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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:28 pm

My own opinions aren't too different from Rednal's with respect to the characters and story...with a few differences. The writing was excellent and the whole cast was great...I love Enri, but yeah...it'd been nice if she had an alternate outfit. Anyway, more on my thoughts below...
Spoiler:
- I'm not sure why, and it might be me...but the game didn't feel all that grindy to me...at least not any more than CG 1 anyway. For me, it's the brutal use of stat debuffs and adverse effects that made fights hard...SPd down is no joke.

- Bosses are tougher and while you do need a surprising amount of luck for some, skill setup and coaching helped me out ALOT! See, i built a pretty M focused team so countering and defense were my best friends...Yurine was a frigging counter queen! I did prioritize stat debuffing ice skills and such for Kuroe...who is kinda OP with her MP steal skills. Coaching saved my ass when I needed extra def on bosses...ugh. Coaching saved my ass alot.
- A little annoyed that it's hard to cure debuffs till so late in since that's where the enemies are cheapest, but meh.
- Motivation was easier overall, but I liked the games more here than in CG 1 so i don't mind.
- The game still coulda used an extra EX type of dungeon and legit NG + option though...
- I liked how much more "personal" the story was and that tension throughout...I thought it was very nicely paced and written...Everyone's inner bitch came out in full force at just the time and in the right ways...minus Yurine, Kuroe and Mizuki. Enri and Maya were especially nice touches, but I wish a bit more could've been elaborated on the MC's past concerning his sister. If there had been an EX dungeon, I think it would've been cool go focus on that hanging thread and we'd get to to see some interesting reactions from the girls...like an epilogue I guess? ....Not a bad fanfic idea actually. ..hmmm.
- The soundtrack...was awesome. My favorite was that piece wgen Maya shows upand when Sui confronts her...good stuff.
- The True Ending does NOT disappoint. The girls look AWESOME in their manager uniforms! Lots of room for "what if" scenarios too...yay!
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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby razisgosu » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:48 am

Chapter 3, Sui is a champ. She's such a good character with great lines.

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby Sleepyprinny99 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:38 pm

razisgosu wrote:Chapter 3, Sui is a champ. She's such a good character with great lines.



Yes, Sui was great!

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby shadowmaksim » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:29 am

Well, I just finished the game so time for some thoughts. Expect plenty of comparisons to the first game. Also, some general spoilers.

To begin, I must say that I did very much enjoy the game, don't get me wrong on that. But on the other hand, I'd like to bring up a statement I made from my first post in this thread, the one where I was analyzing the characters' designs.
shadowmaksim wrote:While I like that there is more variety to the outfits, it's a bit too much which I'm finding is losing some of that central unity.

Strangely enough, this basically summarizes my overall thoughts of the game in general. Quite a few things were added to the story, characters, and gameplay and while they are nice...I don't think they were executed all that well. I have many mixed thoughts about the game.

Gameplay:
Spoiler:
The SM and Coaching Systems while interesting, the later in particular really felt like it dissuaded you from using most of the cast like the first game did.

The buffs you get from Coaching is quite significant so you'd almost always want to have all, or at least most, of your active characters benefiting from it. But coupled with the SM affinities, not all of the characters will match regardless of how you try to set them up, risking making some of your characters significantly weaker and encouraging you to avoid some character formations. With the party set up I went with, Yurine (S) and Tsukasa (M) would never get a match if both were present and Lily (S or M, her Coaching influences are the same for both) ended up getting left out all together since she didn't match up in any set up I had at all. Only times I ever used Lily because of this was when she was forced on you in some battles and the very few times during boss battles for her revive and shield skills in critical situations.

And once you do have a set up, it feels like you're discouraged from swapping around characters during battles since only the initial four characters get anything from the Coaching system. You'd essentially be swapping out a significantly stronger/tankier character for a weaker character most of the time. Not to mention the effects of Coaching is limited to only once every three turns and, once in effect, can't be changed until it's done.

The whole SM system itself I thought was pretty good. It gave you more flexibility to build the characters as you wanted and could be swapped around whenever needed. But again, due to the Coaching system, you don't have complete rein as you want to keep some characters an S or M, either for how they will be influenced by the Coaching options or the kind of buffs they get.

The general difficulty is also quite the bit higher than the first game. The first game I thought was generally really easy so I mostly welcome it but there's no getting around that there are definitely some balance issues.

I don't quite remember how crucial they were in the first game but status ailments and debuffs, the speed one in particular, are ridiculous in this game. Entire battles can go 180 in some instances. This is especially noticeable during boss battles. On top of already being much harder, they can get ridiculous later on once they start spamming skills that can mass inflict status ailments on your party. And given that status ailments can be just as useful on them as well, it ends up being a battle of who can land the most speed debuffs and status ailments on the other first along with keeping them up the longest.


Story:
Spoiler:
One of my main complaints about the first game was that the pacing wasn't that good. Only really picking up near the end of the game, pretty much on the 2nd to last area of the main story.

Regarding this game, the pacing definitely is significantly better and it's mostly due to the added conflict on having a convict in your party, not to mention the general added danger of the cast actually getting thrown into hell. It created a constant flow of distrust between the characters that persists for most of the game. My only issue with the convict plot point is that it feels like it gets resolved far too quickly after the climax point. Everyone were basically at each others throats and then they all just made up and were fine. Felt like there should have been some lingering doubts, slight hesitations, or something. Even the final revelation of the convict plot felt kind of weak and nothing much really came out of it. Though I will give it props for actually going through with it with one of the characters actually being a convict instead of the "it was a mistake, no one actually was a convict" scenario I thought was going to happen.

Aside from that, there were a couple details that kind of bugged me when compared to the first game.

When the characters were confronting their pasts, it played out differently than how it was in the first game. Unless I'm misremembering things, the first game had it where you actually went through the events that led the characters to become delinquents. But here, it was just a "this is what would happen if you didn't die" scenario. While the subject matters were just as dark, if not darker, I felt like it was kind of cheapened in that they didn't exactly happen, except for maybe the convict's past which possibly did.

While on that, the whole Reformation program is oddly really short. If the cast didn't get sent to hell, they would have went straight from the introductory cell area to confronting their pasts immediately. In the first game, there were entire trial areas in between these two sections. I guess you could give the explanation that it's like that due to the then-current Manager of the Reformation Program being quick to give up on the delinquents, essentially forcing them to progress too quickly and they fail because of it, which could tie in to some of the plot details. I don't know, that's just a guess.

Aside from that, the last thing I'll bring up are the Knight events. On one hand, it's cool that you actually get all of them as part of the main story but on the other hand, it kind of felt cheaper as well. I mean, in the first game, it felt like a character becoming a Knight was a big deal. To the point that they needed a rare experimental drug ( which you even had to go hunt down more off), that being a Knight was literally considered to be an abnormality which screwed with the Reformation Program itself, and even had the symbolism of needing the minigame maxed out for the given character before they could turn into one to show how far they've progressed, it just felt like a much bigger deal. But here, the characters just tried hard enough during a moment of struggle and they turned into Knights.

At the very least, there was actually a line regarding this that possibly connects to the first game. That there apparently used to be medication to help Knight certain individuals but it was abused by "someone" and thus were all gotten rid off. Sounds like what happened in the first game so it could be a reference. Kind of wish there was more, which I was disappointed in the lack of, but it's better than nothing I suppose.


Characters:
Spoiler:
For the most part, I rather liked the characters. It was interesting to see how they all progressed as the convict plot point was gaining steam. Every character had their own mentality, formed their own alliances and rivalries, etc. Nothing too deep, given how short the game is, but it was definitely a nice foundation.

Now then, one part that I was probably looking the most forward to regarding the new characters was their Knight outfits. Even when I skimmed through the artbook, I specifically avoided looking at them so that I could see them revealed properly in the game.

And I was kind of disappointed to be honest. Found most of them to be a lot more fetish-ized which just looked odd to me. Shinoa had some sort of high-leg leotard, Lily was basically in bridal lingerie with her underwear on full display, Kuroe wore PE shorts for some reason along ribbon rabbit-ears which looked odd to me, and Tsukasa literally had two flaps barely covering her nipples. Mizuki's knight outfit was basically the only one I genuinely liked, even if I thought it was a bit odd for her character. I mean, it wasn't like the Knight outfits from the first game didn't have fetish-y elements either. Kisaragi, Sako, and Miu for example basically had their Knight outfits made out of leather with a BDSM look but it at least fit their character and their play-styles. Here, I felt like it was off the mark for the most part.

Also, I don't know if I just happened to miss something but it feels like the backstory of the Program Instructor you play as kind of just got dropped at some point. I mean, there was the whole thing about him having amnesia and getting loose recollections of having a younger sister in which something supposedly bad happened...but nothing past that is ever brought up. How did he get amnesia? What was the deal with the younger sister? Did he ever actually get his memories back? None of the endings really address this at all either as far as I noticed.

Oh, and Enri. I thought she was okay for the most part. Kind of wish more was done with her, like she'd join your party or something. That said, I do have to wonder why she's wearing a delinquent outfit like the rest of the cast consider her role.


Minigame:
Spoiler:
I guess I should address this.

I really disliked these. Even with some of the issues I've brought up in the other parts, I think this is easily the worst aspect of the game.

For as much as people are whining that the lack of voices take them out of the experience (amongst all the other noises going on), the entire minigame is just that for me when compared to the rest of the game. No actual impact to the story. No meaningful character development that comes from it. The fact that the characters are literally at each others throats in the story but are sexually hugging each other here as you "spank" them is really immersion breaking for me. Actually playing them I found to be so tedious and boring to slug through repeatedly.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I believe that these minigames are a blight on an otherwise decent game. Even worse is that people think that these are the only things of value in the game or that that's all there is to them. It'd be one thing if they were actually implemented well. Where they actually supplemented the game overall. I've played games where I'd consider have been able to achieve this and were better for it. But this isn't one of them. At this point, it's nothing more than an arbitrary mechanic full of cheap pandering forced on you so you can get more skills, Heart events, and the final ending.


Overall, I did like the game. It did get frustrating at certain point due to some difficulty spikes but nothing easily manageable.

On a technical level, it is better than the first game, but I'm hesitant to say I found it to be more enjoyable than it though. The first game might have been simpler in many ways but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If we were just comparing the base games, I'd definitely say it'd just go to "Criminal Girls 2" but I still fancy the added post-story content from the first game quite the bit due to the dynamic it had. Not to mention I guess I also probably have a nostalgic bias for the first game overall, like with the artwork which I still very much prefer.

Either way, it might not be an amazing game but it was still plenty an enjoyable one nonetheless.

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Re: Thoughts about the game...etc, etc (Story, gameplay, characters...the usual)

Postby razisgosu » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:34 pm

Going through Yurine's shadow right now and I noticed something that may have been wrong or changed for the release. They specifically bring up "college" when speaking about Yurine. I don't want to say it's wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was high school in the Japanese release and altered to college to give the stigma of 18+ years of age.


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