PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

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PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby NISChina » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:52 am

Please, NISA. Steam is a platform that grants more freedom than consoles do, and we totally understand why you had to make the changes on the Vita releases. I am not asking you to redeem yourselves, I am just asking you to bring this game as its true vision onto Steam. Steam is a great platform that grants you that kind of freedom, so you can definitely do it.

I already know that there was a mention on your blog about QA costs being too high to change CG1's american release for Steam, but I really hope you've changed your mind. Do the same with CG2 as well.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby razisgosu » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:25 pm

I've already made my opinion on this pretty clear I feel. If the games do launch on Steam censored, I'll have no choice but to side with not buying them on Steam. I'd love to buy them a second time, for Criminal Girls 2 the assets on the Vita actually look really nice, I'd love to see them in true HD.

The excuse of rating boards and company policy doesn't fly for me when launching the game on a platform where the ESRB is not required and as far as company policy, there shouldn't be one in place that is anti-consumers interests.

I sincerely hope the Criminal Girls 2 petiiton, in addition to the multiple low selling censored games on Steam will get NISA marketing to think twice on the censorship on these games.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby xethyrus » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:30 pm

They seem to be keeping pretty quiet about criminal girls on steam in general.
Similarly I won't be getting it on steam if it's censored.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby RandomR » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:08 am

What can they say on Steam forums? Further explain that they won't revert the changes due to company policy? That will sound ridiculous to most and just an excuse to leave the game as it is (it may be unfair because they are actually bound by such policies, but that's how everyone will see it).
It was also the perfect chance to put to rest the rumors they do it because they have problems with such content and/or make up for Mugen Souls/Mugen Souls Z and get back some good will, what a wasted opportunity (heck if they did it they could ADVERTISE IT as a feature of the game like they're advertising the additional characters for disgaea 2)

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby BDSMKane2 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:37 am

They have a company policy not to release AO or unrated content, no matter the platform. Do any of you ever actually take the time to think about that? WHY would that be a company policy? There are only two options, seriously, it isn't a complex matter. Either 1) they don't want the company to be known for releasing games with content that deserves an AO or are uncensored, or 2) they morally oppose content that deserves an AO or is uncensored. This isn't rocket science.

Employee1: Hey, I had this idea. We can release stuff on Steam without getting it rated.
Employee2: Hmm, but why would we do that?
Employee1: Well, we could actually save money on the budget by not getting it rated. Additionally, we would attract more customers who dislike any potential censorship.
Employee2: Wow, we spend less money and make more?!
Employee1: Yeah, are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Employee1 and 2: Let's make it a policy to never do that!

Seriously, what the hell is going through your minds? NISA DOESN'T WANT CONTENT DESERVING OF AN AO OR UNRATED GAMES! Period. No ESRB, Germany rating board, or any other bull excuse SHOULD work when their own damn policy prevents them from doing it anyway. We constantly hear in these debates about censorship that "ratings aren't as cheap as you think", so okay, they can't submit it twice. Yet they WANT to pay that money when they don't need to? It's damned irrational, and anyone should be able to see it.

So let's work this out a bit more, for anyone who isn't catching on.
X(cost of rating) + Y(cost of edits) < Z(budget)
They localize MS, MS2, CG, CG2, and their argument is this... the cost of the edits(Y) is less than the cost of the rating(X), so even if they could save on Y, having to resubmit a second time would be cost prohibitive.
X > Y : rating submission > censorship.
Then they release them for Steam, but the budget to edit it is more than they could save by not submitting to the rating's board.
Y > X : censorship removal > rating submission.
SEE HOW THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE?!

But fine, PrinnySupervisor comes in, spins some public relations trash in response to this message, the sheep go "Baaah" and keep eating. So here's my final nail in the coffin, undeniable proof that they either want to avoid the company image of unrated games or games that could contain AO content, or that it's a morality thing. This has all been about money, anyone involved in these arguments knows it... budget to rate twice, budget to edit, budget to remove edits. Excuses and money. So here it is...

Why doesn't NISA release the current games, as they are, WITHOUT ANY FURTHER EDITS OR RATING, to Steam? No cost of edits, no cost of rating. Win/win. So, once you come up with that answer, once you admit that they are spending money they don't need to, you should, hopefully(not really, most of you still won't listen) realize that it's all about the image or morality. Steam version, VITA version, PS3 version. It doesn't matter. Image or morality. End of lesson.

To PS, TDA, or any other NISA rep. Prove me wrong. Release CG2 as it is on Steam, unrated, and prove me wrong. That or stop lying to your fans that helped you grow this big, become this successful, and reach the point of having higher annual profits than your own parent company. Any other crap you type out here in response is shallow, petty, and doesn't mean a damn thing. Plenty of people can lie, but this is one pissed off fan who used to support you wholeheartedly that wants to see some actions, not more hollow words.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby RandomR » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:32 am

BDSMKane2 wrote: Yet they WANT to pay that money when they don't need to? .


You're wrong about the money, I was the very first person to accuse NISA of this and they already cleared this up:

Prinny Supervisor wrote:RandomR, just to slightly correct you, ESRB ratings are not done per platform in every case. For example, during the submission process we can put as many platforms as we wish down, and as long as the content is the same on every platform, the rating will apply to all platforms. This is why you shouldn't put too much stock into seeing that a game has the PC platform listed, expecting a PC version to be in development or ready to be published. In the majority of cases, we put the PC platform down just as a safety net so that if we ever decided to port it in the future, we would not have to get it re-rated by the ESRB, as it would already technically be rated for PC. The whole process is a little bit more complicated than that, and there are caveats, but it is not the case that we have to pay for each individual platform.


viewtopic.php?p=890008#p890008

The company policy is still terribly wrong and makes no sense imho

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby xethyrus » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:48 am

With criminal girls 2 it would be really silly for them to only release the game where it's rated seeing as it would stop them from releasing in Germany and Australia.
Was the first one unrated in Australia as well? I forget.

Though knowing NISA I wouldn't be surprised if they released it unrated there anyway despite their "company policy".

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby NISChina » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:16 pm

BDSMKane2 wrote:They have a company policy not to release AO or unrated content, no matter the platform. Do any of you ever actually take the time to think about that? WHY would that be a company policy? There are only two options, seriously, it isn't a complex matter. Either 1) they don't want the company to be known for releasing games with content that deserves an AO or are uncensored, or 2) they morally oppose content that deserves an AO or is uncensored. This isn't rocket science.

Employee1: Hey, I had this idea. We can release stuff on Steam without getting it rated.
Employee2: Hmm, but why would we do that?
Employee1: Well, we could actually save money on the budget by not getting it rated. Additionally, we would attract more customers who dislike any potential censorship.
Employee2: Wow, we spend less money and make more?!
Employee1: Yeah, are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Employee1 and 2: Let's make it a policy to never do that!

Seriously, what the hell is going through your minds? NISA DOESN'T WANT CONTENT DESERVING OF AN AO OR UNRATED GAMES! Period. No ESRB, Germany rating board, or any other bull excuse SHOULD work when their own damn policy prevents them from doing it anyway. We constantly hear in these debates about censorship that "ratings aren't as cheap as you think", so okay, they can't submit it twice. Yet they WANT to pay that money when they don't need to? It's damned irrational, and anyone should be able to see it.

So let's work this out a bit more, for anyone who isn't catching on.
X(cost of rating) + Y(cost of edits) < Z(budget)
They localize MS, MS2, CG, CG2, and their argument is this... the cost of the edits(Y) is less than the cost of the rating(X), so even if they could save on Y, having to resubmit a second time would be cost prohibitive.
X > Y : rating submission > censorship.
Then they release them for Steam, but the budget to edit it is more than they could save by not submitting to the rating's board.
Y > X : censorship removal > rating submission.
SEE HOW THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE?!

But fine, PrinnySupervisor comes in, spins some public relations trash in response to this message, the sheep go "Baaah" and keep eating. So here's my final nail in the coffin, undeniable proof that they either want to avoid the company image of unrated games or games that could contain AO content, or that it's a morality thing. This has all been about money, anyone involved in these arguments knows it... budget to rate twice, budget to edit, budget to remove edits. Excuses and money. So here it is...

Why doesn't NISA release the current games, as they are, WITHOUT ANY FURTHER EDITS OR RATING, to Steam? No cost of edits, no cost of rating. Win/win. So, once you come up with that answer, once you admit that they are spending money they don't need to, you should, hopefully(not really, most of you still won't listen) realize that it's all about the image or morality. Steam version, VITA version, PS3 version. It doesn't matter. Image or morality. End of lesson.

To PS, TDA, or any other NISA rep. Prove me wrong. Release CG2 as it is on Steam, unrated, and prove me wrong. That or stop lying to your fans that helped you grow this big, become this successful, and reach the point of having higher annual profits than your own parent company. Any other crap you type out here in response is shallow, petty, and doesn't mean a damn thing. Plenty of people can lie, but this is one pissed off fan who used to support you wholeheartedly that wants to see some actions, not more hollow words.


It might be delusional, but Prinny Supervisor did tell us that he wanted to see the amount of interest that could be gauged in an uncensored release of CG2 (we're talking about Steam here, not any other platforms).

Their other games being censored on Steam is irrelevant. It starts now with Criminal Girls (or Criminal Girls 2). With Prinny telling us that there's the potential of gauging interest, and I truly hope that starts with CG2, or even better, CG1 then CG2.

The fact that Prinny told us he wants us to show the company demand in no censorship means their policy is BS. They are just oblivious to what fans actually want, or don't care. I do hope Prinny will help with starting a new trend within NIS tbh. He is the potential saviour that we need to convince the big corporate heads/shareholders that there's a bigger and better market for degenerates like us.

Gonna say again, that I might seem delusional but the trailer for CG1 does not really have any indication of any sort of censorship being invoked onto the game, except for the dialogue change "Motivation," but really, that's minor compared to the pink gas/voices, and none of that being changed was evident in that trailer.

Did they blatantly hide those things in an effort to either tease us, or hint that we truly are getting this game uncensored in the west?

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby Rednal » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:22 pm

...Having a company policy isn't BS. That's usually the kind of thing a company decides after carefully considering their options, running the numbers, and determining what's best for them. All Prinny Supervisor was really saying was that policies can be changed if someone can provide sufficient reason for doing so. This is normal in business - even required, in some cases, in order to adapt to a changing market.

Trying to spin that into suggesting they don't care about their audience is... :?
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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby RandomR » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:06 pm

Rednal wrote:Trying to spin that into suggesting they don't care about their audience is... :?


This is exactly the thing a few people including myself have warned about, NISA will be perceived as not caring at all since they CAN release an unrated game and their only reason for not doing it is "company policy". That only gives strength to the rumor that they want to censor the game (it doesn't matter if it's not true, and I'm not saying it is, but it's how people are perceiving it).

Also yes, having policies isn't BS, but refusing to release unrated games for "reasons" is (they still haven't explained those reasons at all, which only makes it more difficult to understand)

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby razisgosu » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:44 pm

Rednal wrote:...Having a company policy isn't BS. That's usually the kind of thing a company decides after carefully considering their options, running the numbers, and determining what's best for them. All Prinny Supervisor was really saying was that policies can be changed if someone can provide sufficient reason for doing so. This is normal in business - even required, in some cases, in order to adapt to a changing market.

Trying to spin that into suggesting they don't care about their audience is... :?


Having company policy is fine, but having one that directly makes it so you can't deliver a product in your consumers best interests seems counter productive. That's exactly what's going on with these PC releases of censored titles. There is absolutely nothing holding NISA back from releasing these on PC uncensored, except this supposed policy.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby BDSMKane2 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:54 pm

Rednal wrote:...Having a company policy isn't BS. That's usually the kind of thing a company decides after carefully considering their options, running the numbers, and determining what's best for them.

Don't twist my words, the last thing I want to hear is more hollow defense from a blind fanatic. If that's what you THOUGHT I said, then it's pretty clear why you've spent years failing to understand that you've been duped.
Rednal wrote:Trying to spin that into suggesting they don't care about their audience is... :?

Well, aren't you the King of trying to spin things? Look at this exact quote from you, where you're not only misinterpreting(and failing to quote because it wouldn't support your argument), but then casually attempting to undermine me. You want to know what's really " :? "? How you've spent years subtly ridiculing everyone that speaks out against NISA and trying to shift opinion to be favorable of their company. Until they hired this new PR/editor, you were undoubtedly their best spin doctor, and you don't even work for them.
Rednal wrote:All Prinny Supervisor was really saying was that policies can be changed if someone can provide sufficient reason for doing so. This is normal in business - even required, in some cases, in order to adapt to a changing market.

Finally, to be clear, I understand and agree to all of that, and nothing I said runs contrary to any of it. I know PS said that and I know how businesses run. Thanks for contributing nothing except misdirection and condescension.



NISChina wrote:It might be delusional, but Prinny Supervisor did tell us that he wanted to see the amount of interest that could be gauged in an uncensored release of CG2 (we're talking about Steam here, not any other platforms).

Sure, and that's why CensoredGaming had that petition that was in the other topic. Well, that petition hit over 1500 signatures, and not a damn word about it in over a month. The interest is clearly there, yet we hear nothing. But that's okay, because I'm quite sure when we hear something it's going to be, "Well, I fought for all of us, but the people in charge aren't ready to give in yet. Keep trying and buy our products now, and maybe we will get them next time!"
NISChina wrote:Gonna say again, that I might seem delusional but the trailer for CG1 does not really have any indication of any sort of censorship being invoked onto the game, except for the dialogue change "Motivation," but really, that's minor compared to the pink gas/voices, and none of that being changed was evident in that trailer.

Did they blatantly hide those things in an effort to either tease us, or hint that we truly are getting this game uncensored in the west?

It's censored. We already know it's censored. If you're hoping it's not, then yes, you are delusional.
Prinny Supervisor wrote:CG is already in the books, as it were (we announced that it was coming to Steam a while back and we've been constantly working it out), but CG2 has the slightest glimmer of an itty-bitty hope of coming to Steam uncensored, but that would require an exception to company policy and a very long meeting about budgets and scheduling, as has been stated.

viewtopic.php?f=123&t=16915&start=1575#p889987
NISChina wrote:The fact that Prinny told us he wants us to show the company demand in no censorship means their policy is BS. They are just oblivious to what fans actually want, or don't care. I do hope Prinny will help with starting a new trend within NIS tbh. He is the potential saviour that we need to convince the big corporate heads/shareholders that there's a bigger and better market for degenerates like us.

I can agree with most of what you said there. However, doesn't anyone else find it weird that so many users here see PS as the second coming of NISA-glory? All of this skepticism, cynical fans, backlash over censorship, and then all of a sudden we get this new employee that talks like one of us and acts like one of us, and tells us how hard he is fighting to make us happy... yet it does no good? I mean, other than a bunch of words, has PS actually given the community anything? I'm only commenting on this because I see on multiple forums that PS is being praised for... words. Seriously. I will admit I'm a cynic and always have been, but when did people start trusting everything that was said to them by someone who works for a company that wants to sell a product? Does anyone even understand that an employee is SUPPOSED to make their company look and sound better than they really are? Was the term "sales person" removed from the English language while I wasn't looking?



@RandomR and razisgosu
I seriously don't understand how either of you have hope. You two both clearly see the hypocrisy on NISA's end. I really don't get it, but at least you're not walking through a barn and pretending you smell roses; you know what's surrounding you.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby razisgosu » Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:19 pm

@RandomR and razisgosu
I seriously don't understand how either of you have hope. You two both clearly see the hypocrisy on NISA's end. I really don't get it, but at least you're not walking through a barn and pretending you smell roses; you know what's surrounding you.


At the end of the day one of two things will happen.

1. It will release on PC uncensored or with a non-fanmade patch to allow it to maintain uncensored status. I would accept either of these solutions and support NISAs efforts in these cases.

or

2. It will release on PC censored and sadly I will be forced to join the boycott brigade against that particular release as I've done for Mugen Souls, Mugen Souls Z, and Agarest 2 on PC (thanks Ghostlight!)

I'd really like to think that there seriously aren't marketing people out there who are not seeing that there's a clear improvement to be made by releasing the game uncensored. If bonus sales, positive PR with fans, and clearing the preexisting stigma that NISA is pro censorship isn't enough to sway marketing folks to want to put the time and effort into releasing these titles uncensored, I don't know what will. Additionally you can literally use this as a feature, a selling point for the game. There are nearly no negatives with this scenario.

I'd also want to reiterate that this is not the Vita platform that the game will be releasing on, the Vita platform where users are starved for any release and will buy nearly anything that comes out. Its the PC platform, a platform where its users are very heavily interested in uncensored releases. Every time an anime-esque game gets released on Steam, one of the first posts on the board will be "is the game uncensored?"

I'm more than willing to send an email to somebody at NISA with the power to get this game uncensored to help move this topic along, just let me know who I need to get it to.

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby RandomR » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:26 am

BDSMKane2 wrote:@RandomR and razisgosu
I seriously don't understand how either of you have hope. You two both clearly see the hypocrisy on NISA's end. I really don't get it, but at least you're not walking through a barn and pretending you smell roses; you know what's surrounding you.


I have little hope of them changing their policy tbh, but what do I have to lose by trying? Absolutely nothing, at best something happens, at worst nothing happens. All I have wasted will be 30 seconds spent to type a post and link a petition.
From my experience sometimes actually talking to devs/publishers is helpful and actually brings some results, not always but sometimes happens, so as long as they don't outright tell me that it's 100% impossible I'll still give it a shot (talking about CG2 here, I know it's too late for CG:IO)

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Re: PLEASE uncensor the CG1 steam release

Postby Rednal » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:05 pm

*Tosses popcorn into mouth* Yeah, I know, I'm the horribly, awfully biased blind idiot fanboy who supports the company no matter what. :lol: How absolutely shocking that somebody here on their own official forums actually likes them, yeah? I mean, who saw that one coming?

...

Eh, I should probably tone down the sarcasm there. It's hard to convey the right tone through text, so more seriously... *Rubs chin*

1) Last I checked, yeah, the petition reached somewhere around 1500 signatures. That might not be high enough to prompt NISA to change their minds. They can't do everything that everyone wants - if you want a company to make a change, you usually have to demonstrate massive support for it. As... passionate... as many anti-censorship people are, I'm not sure they've actually demonstrated that yet.

2) BDSMKane2? I wasn't twisting your words. I was replying to NISChina. Unless you're also that person. *Shrugs* Could be. As far as quotes go, though...

The fact that Prinny told us he wants us to show the company demand in no censorship means their policy is BS. They are just oblivious to what fans actually want, or don't care.


That, specifically, is the part I was addressing. o wo/
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